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Oh well, in the meantime a few years have gone by and the studies are here. Do we really need to repeat the same arguments of 5 years ago?

by soco 1y ago

monero-xmr 1y ago
It was a major reason for the collapse in trust of institutions, and then the election of Trump 2.0. But why rehash the past emirite?
- silverquiet 1y ago
  Given that the plan to accelerate covid vaccine development, "Operation Warp Speed", was a Trump administration program, this seems quite ironic.
- teamonkey 1y ago
  So you’re saying that something done on Trump’s watch led to such distrust that people elected Trump again?
  - kcplate 1y ago
    I’d suggest that because the implementation didn't happen on Trump’s watch and the vaccine hard sell, mandates, “stretching” of the truth of efficacy during that period was the primary contributors to much of the distrust, it’s definitely helped contribute to his reelection. There is certainly no way to know how Trump would have handled that implementation, but we do know how the Biden administration handled it.
    - teamonkey 1y ago
      It’s true that Trump may well have rolled back the legislation he put in place, who knows? Efficacy figures are bound to change once you go from a ‘small’ study (in this case hundreds of thousands) to a wider population. The original efficacy claims would have been truly astounding, and they ended up being only very good. 80% efficacy (which it ended up as) should be seen as a medical triumph, and certainly worthwhile in the context of a global pandemic.
      - kcplate 1y ago
        > original efficacy claims would have been truly astounding That’s the problem, the bar was set too high. Things were said like “get the vaccine and you won’t get Covid”, “you won’t be able to spread it if you do get it”, and “you will have a milder case if you do get it”. In short order people realized all of those things were exaggerated and not true. Erodes trust. It was a huge miscalculation and damage was done.
        teamonkey 1y ago
        > Things were said like “get the vaccine and you won’t get Covid” Was this actually said, or did they say something like “much less likely to get Covid symptoms”? Because the science never claimed 100% efficacy, at best they said 94%, which is quite a clear indication that some people would still get symptoms. The efficacy rates and R rates were all over the news at the time. > “you won’t be able to spread it if you do get it” Again an absolute that was never claimed by science. If you have milder symptoms it reduces the chance of spreading and reduces the viral load when it does. Even a small reduction in symptoms in the population will greatly help reduce the rate of the virus spreading. > “you will have a milder case if you do get it”. This part at least is correct. There was a lot of confusion and bad science communication at the time, but the vaccines worked the same as vaccines always have. R rates and efficacy rates were talked about at length on mainstream and social media (what else did they have to talk about). The problem is that people heard only what they wanted to hear.
        kcplate 1y ago
        Tons of compilation videos on YT of Biden, other politicos, and much of the leftward leaning media making those very claims in 2021. I’ve seen them, don’t need to again, and don’t want my algorithm results to be filled with that crap by doing a search on your behalf. People tend to try and excuse it by saying “well, they weren’t the scientists” but the reality is they were the public face of the covid vaccination efforts and their exaggerations and insistence on mandates had a net negative effect on people’s perceptions of the covid vaccine efficacy which has bled into a more general skepticism of public health and other vaccines. Remember what President Obama purportedly said: “Never underestimate Joe’s ability to fuck things up”. Applies here.
  - UncleMeat 1y ago
    It really is astonishing to me that "who was president in 2020" appears to have been memory-holed.
    - teamonkey 1y ago
      Trump was president when the legislation was passed which allowed the vaccine to pass through so rapidly. GP was complaining that it was rushed through under Biden, but it was Trumps legislation that allowed it to happen without emergency powers.

Oh well, in the meantime a few years have gone by and the studies are here. Do we really need to repeat the same arguments of 5 years ago?

by soco 1y ago

Oh well, in the meantime a few years have gone by and the studies are here. Do we really need to repeat the same arguments of 5 years ago?

monero-xmr 1y ago

It was a major reason for the collapse in trust of institutions, and then the election of Trump 2.0. But why rehash the past emirite?

silverquiet 1y ago
Given that the plan to accelerate covid vaccine development, "Operation Warp Speed", was a Trump administration program, this seems quite ironic.
teamonkey 1y ago
So you’re saying that something done on Trump’s watch led to such distrust that people elected Trump again?
- kcplate 1y ago
  I’d suggest that because the implementation didn't happen on Trump’s watch and the vaccine hard sell, mandates, “stretching” of the truth of efficacy during that period was the primary contributors to much of the distrust, it’s definitely helped contribute to his reelection. There is certainly no way to know how Trump would have handled that implementation, but we do know how the Biden administration handled it.
  - teamonkey 1y ago
    It’s true that Trump may well have rolled back the legislation he put in place, who knows? Efficacy figures are bound to change once you go from a ‘small’ study (in this case hundreds of thousands) to a wider population. The original efficacy claims would have been truly astounding, and they ended up being only very good. 80% efficacy (which it ended up as) should be seen as a medical triumph, and certainly worthwhile in the context of a global pandemic.
    - kcplate 1y ago
      > original efficacy claims would have been truly astounding That’s the problem, the bar was set too high. Things were said like “get the vaccine and you won’t get Covid”, “you won’t be able to spread it if you do get it”, and “you will have a milder case if you do get it”. In short order people realized all of those things were exaggerated and not true. Erodes trust. It was a huge miscalculation and damage was done.
      - teamonkey 1y ago
        > Things were said like “get the vaccine and you won’t get Covid” Was this actually said, or did they say something like “much less likely to get Covid symptoms”? Because the science never claimed 100% efficacy, at best they said 94%, which is quite a clear indication that some people would still get symptoms. The efficacy rates and R rates were all over the news at the time. > “you won’t be able to spread it if you do get it” Again an absolute that was never claimed by science. If you have milder symptoms it reduces the chance of spreading and reduces the viral load when it does. Even a small reduction in symptoms in the population will greatly help reduce the rate of the virus spreading. > “you will have a milder case if you do get it”. This part at least is correct. There was a lot of confusion and bad science communication at the time, but the vaccines worked the same as vaccines always have. R rates and efficacy rates were talked about at length on mainstream and social media (what else did they have to talk about). The problem is that people heard only what they wanted to hear.
        kcplate 1y ago
        Tons of compilation videos on YT of Biden, other politicos, and much of the leftward leaning media making those very claims in 2021. I’ve seen them, don’t need to again, and don’t want my algorithm results to be filled with that crap by doing a search on your behalf. People tend to try and excuse it by saying “well, they weren’t the scientists” but the reality is they were the public face of the covid vaccination efforts and their exaggerations and insistence on mandates had a net negative effect on people’s perceptions of the covid vaccine efficacy which has bled into a more general skepticism of public health and other vaccines. Remember what President Obama purportedly said: “Never underestimate Joe’s ability to fuck things up”. Applies here.
- UncleMeat 1y ago
  It really is astonishing to me that "who was president in 2020" appears to have been memory-holed.
  - teamonkey 1y ago
    Trump was president when the legislation was passed which allowed the vaccine to pass through so rapidly. GP was complaining that it was rushed through under Biden, but it was Trumps legislation that allowed it to happen without emergency powers.