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Why is there a constant need to justify why vaccines, vaccine research, and anything related to them are inherently a good thing to skeptics but we're also supp

Why is there a constant need to justify why vaccines, vaccine research, and anything related to them are inherently a good thing to skeptics but we're also supposed to believe that AI and the major companies proping it up is the future with no scrutiny?

AnimalMuppet 1y ago
HN is not one person. It is not even one cohesive "we". Here you find people who are AI believers, and AI skeptics. And you find people who are vaccine believers, and vaccine skeptics. And if you think that HN believes that AI is the future with no scrutiny, you haven't been paying attention.
monero-xmr 1y ago
I'm not a "vaccine skeptic" per se but the fact a novel mechanism for vaccines was hand-waived through the FDA, and essentially forced on everyone in society, is something that has not been scrutinized enough
- conception 1y ago
  If by hand waved you mean gone through the same clinical trials and rigor as any approved approach.
  - monero-xmr 1y ago
    Except for years of follow-up studies to determine longer term effects, which certainly would have been applied for a novel vaccine, before forcing all of society to use it. Of course you could be fired from your job and be banned from public spaces (except in Florida) instead of taking it, but essentially you had to if you wanted to function in society. I will keep my laminated "Proof of Vaccination" card for life so we don't forget, wasn't allowed anywhere without it (except Black Lives Matter riots)
    - soco 1y ago
      Oh well, in the meantime a few years have gone by and the studies are here. Do we really need to repeat the same arguments of 5 years ago?
      - monero-xmr 1y ago
        It was a major reason for the collapse in trust of institutions, and then the election of Trump 2.0. But why rehash the past emirite?
        silverquiet 1y ago
        Given that the plan to accelerate covid vaccine development, "Operation Warp Speed", was a Trump administration program, this seems quite ironic.
        teamonkey 1y ago
        So you’re saying that something done on Trump’s watch led to such distrust that people elected Trump again?
        kcplate 1y ago
        I’d suggest that because the implementation didn't happen on Trump’s watch and the vaccine hard sell, mandates, “stretching” of the truth of efficacy during that period was the primary contributors to much of the distrust, it’s definitely helped contribute to his reelection. There is certainly no way to know how Trump would have handled that implementation, but we do know how the Biden administration handled it.
        teamonkey 1y ago
        It’s true that Trump may well have rolled back the legislation he put in place, who knows? Efficacy figures are bound to change once you go from a ‘small’ study (in this case hundreds of thousands) to a wider population. The original efficacy claims would have been truly astounding, and they ended up being only very good. 80% efficacy (which it ended up as) should be seen as a medical triumph, and certainly worthwhile in the context of a global pandemic.
- laughing_man 1y ago
  They knew the vaccines had substantial side effects before they were released to the public. Those results were put under a 75 year gag order, at least in the US. I'm not sure "hand waving" is the right way to describe what happened, but they certainly could have been more honest with us. A public health authority's only coin is the extent to which the public finds it credible, and the US public health establishment may never recover from covid.
  - fch42 1y ago
    you really believe that were such a "gag order" to exist the current US government never mind its health secretary would have done an "Epstein" about that and upheld it? Truly alien. Completely beyond understanding.

AnimalMuppet 1y ago

HN is not one person. It is not even one cohesive "we". Here you find people who are AI believers, and AI skeptics. And you find people who are vaccine believers, and vaccine skeptics. And if you think that HN believes that AI is the future with no scrutiny, you haven't been paying attention.

monero-xmr 1y ago

I'm not a "vaccine skeptic" per se but the fact a novel mechanism for vaccines was hand-waived through the FDA, and essentially forced on everyone in society, is something that has not been scrutinized enough

conception 1y ago
If by hand waved you mean gone through the same clinical trials and rigor as any approved approach.
- monero-xmr 1y ago
  Except for years of follow-up studies to determine longer term effects, which certainly would have been applied for a novel vaccine, before forcing all of society to use it. Of course you could be fired from your job and be banned from public spaces (except in Florida) instead of taking it, but essentially you had to if you wanted to function in society. I will keep my laminated "Proof of Vaccination" card for life so we don't forget, wasn't allowed anywhere without it (except Black Lives Matter riots)
  - soco 1y ago
    Oh well, in the meantime a few years have gone by and the studies are here. Do we really need to repeat the same arguments of 5 years ago?
    - monero-xmr 1y ago
      It was a major reason for the collapse in trust of institutions, and then the election of Trump 2.0. But why rehash the past emirite?
      - silverquiet 1y ago
        Given that the plan to accelerate covid vaccine development, "Operation Warp Speed", was a Trump administration program, this seems quite ironic.
      - teamonkey 1y ago
        So you’re saying that something done on Trump’s watch led to such distrust that people elected Trump again?
        kcplate 1y ago
        I’d suggest that because the implementation didn't happen on Trump’s watch and the vaccine hard sell, mandates, “stretching” of the truth of efficacy during that period was the primary contributors to much of the distrust, it’s definitely helped contribute to his reelection. There is certainly no way to know how Trump would have handled that implementation, but we do know how the Biden administration handled it.
        teamonkey 1y ago
        It’s true that Trump may well have rolled back the legislation he put in place, who knows? Efficacy figures are bound to change once you go from a ‘small’ study (in this case hundreds of thousands) to a wider population. The original efficacy claims would have been truly astounding, and they ended up being only very good. 80% efficacy (which it ended up as) should be seen as a medical triumph, and certainly worthwhile in the context of a global pandemic.
laughing_man 1y ago
They knew the vaccines had substantial side effects before they were released to the public. Those results were put under a 75 year gag order, at least in the US. I'm not sure "hand waving" is the right way to describe what happened, but they certainly could have been more honest with us. A public health authority's only coin is the extent to which the public finds it credible, and the US public health establishment may never recover from covid.
- fch42 1y ago
  you really believe that were such a "gag order" to exist the current US government never mind its health secretary would have done an "Epstein" about that and upheld it? Truly alien. Completely beyond understanding.