4 ms·

That the vaccines worked, that natural immunity against COVID didn't exist, that the vaccines were BETTER than natural immunity, etc. I'm fully vaccinated alon

by reenorap 11mo ago

That the vaccines worked, that natural immunity against COVID didn't exist, that the vaccines were BETTER than natural immunity, etc. I'm fully vaccinated along with a booster. I was the first person outside of medical professionals that I know that got the COVID vaccine. I got COVID 3 weeks after my booster which is when I was supposed to be the most protected. That's when I came to the conclusion that we were lied to. My kid got COVID and then he was still forced to get the vaccine because the school district/state forced it. That's because they refused to believe that natural immunity existed or that somehow the vaccine was magically better than natural immunity. This also made me realize how religious this has become because now even the scientists were anti-science. It took years for them to relent and those several years of religious and anti-science beliefs from scientists and politicians destroyed the trust that people had in them.

Klonoar 11mo ago
The vaccine never stopped you from getting COVID, it just gave you a better response when you got it. I do not understand why this doesn’t click with people.
- zucked 11mo ago
  This was one of my (as a layperson) irritations with this process. Words matter -- the fact that this was rolled out as a "vaccine" gave a lot of people the initial impression that once they got the shot, they'd be immune. Myself included. I believe that the word vaccine was misunderstood on a large scale, much to our detriment. I don't know what it should have been called otherwise, but I think the messaging around the mRNA treatments was handled poorly.
  - reenorap 11mo ago
    It is/was a vaccine, I think the terminology is correct. It just didn't work effectively because the variants mutated too quickly because you're not supposed to vaccinate in the middle of a pandemic. This cause an explosion of variants and they couldn't make vaccines that tracked the new variants fast enough. So instead they decided to change the goalposts and said "This vaccine that worked on the variant 2 years ago will still protect from severe symptoms" when in fact it did nothing and people kept getting infected. It wasn't the vaccine itself it was how it was sold to us by Pfizer, Moderna and the politicians.
  - jghn 11mo ago
    If we're going to go by this, literally every vaccine should stop being called a vaccine. That's not the right answer. The right answer is to not have a population of ignorant people.
    - zucked 11mo ago
      That can be a noble goal, but I wouldn't be so hand-wavy about how people understand words and their meanings. I'm firmly in the camp that the mRNA covid vaccine was a wonder of modern science, and on the whole it had net positives for society. Don't misunderstand, it was not rolled out, or messaged perfectly and wasn't without risk that we're likely to wrap our arms around some day in the future. But we can learn from the experience. And in my view, telling a captive, emotional, and concerned audience "we have a vaccine!" and then not absolutely being a broken record about what that means was a miss.
      - jghn 11mo ago
        My point was that there was absolutely nothing different about the covid vaccine in this regard from literally any other vaccine. So I'm not sure why you're putting it into a special bin here. If the point is that the average person is uneducated and doesn't understand how vaccines work, sure. But if the solution is to use a different word, that new word would need to be applied to every vaccine on the market. And what's the point if that's the case? Also, I don't recall ever hearing people with actual knowledge claiming it provided a cloak of invulnerability. So again, I'm not sure what those people should have done different. I'd agree that the media distorted scientific truths, but they always do that.
  - toast0 11mo ago
    > Words matter -- the fact that this was rolled out as a "vaccine" gave a lot of people the initial impression that once they got the shot, they'd be immune. If you're going to be upset about word choice, the thing to be upset about is that it has no connection to cows at all. No vaccine grants 100% immunity. Some are more effective than others. It's hard to predict efficacy for a novel type of vaccination for a novel virus and there's no vaccines for other viruses in the same family. Certainly, this could have been communicated better, but it's not like flu vaccines have 100% efficacy either and they've been around for decades.
  - UncleMeat 11mo ago
    Words do matter. But "every member of the government needs to communicate flawlessly 100% of the time during a once-in-a-century pandemic alongside a never-before-seen social media misinformation environment, even in their internal communication" is just not a bar that we can meet. Imagine if they didn't call it a vaccine. "Of course this thing won't work, Fauci isn't even willing to call it a vaccine!"
- reenorap 11mo ago
  This is false and has never been proven. This was the propaganda that was spread after the vaccine was openly no longer working. What stopped the pandemic was omicron that was so explosively contagious that 98+% of the world got it at the time. After that everyone had natural immunity that caused decreasing symptoms every subsequent time you got infected with a new variant.
  - frm88 11mo ago
    What stopped the pandemic was omicron that was so explosively contagious that 98+% of the world got it at the time. After that everyone had natural immunity that caused decreasing symptoms every subsequent time you got infected with a new variant. Source? There was a study in 2024 that researched what exactly lead to the sudden decline in Covid deaths [0]: ...suggest that a phase transition in the molecular structure of the COVID-19 spike protein made the virus less likely to cause severe infections. [0] https://www.springer.com/gp/about-springer/media/research-news/all-english-research-news/how-did-the-covid-pandemic-end-so-abruptly-/27488816 https://www.springer.com/gp/about-springer/media/research-ne... click on the link directly to the study. It's a .pdf.
  - ThrowMeAway1618 11mo ago
    And where, exactly, did you get your MD and Phd in epidemiology, Chester? Please provide actual data supporting your ridiculous claim. You won't because you're talking out of your ass and it smells that way too. Don't you have some coloring books to fill in or something?
  - Klonoar 11mo ago
    > This is false and has never been proven. You have zero authority to claim such a thing. If you want to try that route, I'd suggest you actually come with something to back up such a line.
fabian2k 11mo ago
Vaccine-induced immunity is better because it comes with drastically lower chances of serious illness or death than the actual infection. There were plenty of studies comparing immunity through infection and vaccination pretty early on. One interesting aspect initially was that it looked like the combination of vaccination and infection was particularly effective. The infection acted like a booster. I'm not familiar with the exact handling of this in the US, but in general it is difficult to count infection as a replacment for vaccination. There is likely much more variability there, there was less data about this available and the simple tests for COVID are not that reliable. Not impossible, but far more complex than requiring vaccination.
- reenorap 11mo ago
  The point is that mandates forcing people, like my son, who already had COVID to take the vaccine were absolutely wrong. And it also exposed him to the possibility of getting myocarditis from the vaccine, which is openly a risk talked about by the CDC now but was denied before. Natural immunity has been proven time and time again to be much more longer lasting and more effective than vaccination. Once you had COVID, there is no reason whatsoever to force people to get vaccinated. That is simply anti-science.
  - xjlin0 11mo ago
    The point is the COVID you son had and the vaccine are different strains
    - reenorap 11mo ago
      Yes, exactly. There was no point in getting vaccinated with that vaccine.
UncleMeat 11mo ago
> That the vaccines worked Now I don't know what "worked" means to you. But we've got a shitload of data on covid deaths post vaccine and the numbers are stark. If you can look at those two lines and say "nah the vaccines didn't do anything" then I really don't know what to say.

Klonoar 11mo ago

The vaccine never stopped you from getting COVID, it just gave you a better response when you got it. I do not understand why this doesn’t click with people.

zucked 11mo ago
This was one of my (as a layperson) irritations with this process. Words matter -- the fact that this was rolled out as a "vaccine" gave a lot of people the initial impression that once they got the shot, they'd be immune. Myself included. I believe that the word vaccine was misunderstood on a large scale, much to our detriment. I don't know what it should have been called otherwise, but I think the messaging around the mRNA treatments was handled poorly.
- reenorap 11mo ago
  It is/was a vaccine, I think the terminology is correct. It just didn't work effectively because the variants mutated too quickly because you're not supposed to vaccinate in the middle of a pandemic. This cause an explosion of variants and they couldn't make vaccines that tracked the new variants fast enough. So instead they decided to change the goalposts and said "This vaccine that worked on the variant 2 years ago will still protect from severe symptoms" when in fact it did nothing and people kept getting infected. It wasn't the vaccine itself it was how it was sold to us by Pfizer, Moderna and the politicians.
- jghn 11mo ago
  If we're going to go by this, literally every vaccine should stop being called a vaccine. That's not the right answer. The right answer is to not have a population of ignorant people.
  - zucked 11mo ago
    That can be a noble goal, but I wouldn't be so hand-wavy about how people understand words and their meanings. I'm firmly in the camp that the mRNA covid vaccine was a wonder of modern science, and on the whole it had net positives for society. Don't misunderstand, it was not rolled out, or messaged perfectly and wasn't without risk that we're likely to wrap our arms around some day in the future. But we can learn from the experience. And in my view, telling a captive, emotional, and concerned audience "we have a vaccine!" and then not absolutely being a broken record about what that means was a miss.
    - jghn 11mo ago
      My point was that there was absolutely nothing different about the covid vaccine in this regard from literally any other vaccine. So I'm not sure why you're putting it into a special bin here. If the point is that the average person is uneducated and doesn't understand how vaccines work, sure. But if the solution is to use a different word, that new word would need to be applied to every vaccine on the market. And what's the point if that's the case? Also, I don't recall ever hearing people with actual knowledge claiming it provided a cloak of invulnerability. So again, I'm not sure what those people should have done different. I'd agree that the media distorted scientific truths, but they always do that.
- toast0 11mo ago
  > Words matter -- the fact that this was rolled out as a "vaccine" gave a lot of people the initial impression that once they got the shot, they'd be immune. If you're going to be upset about word choice, the thing to be upset about is that it has no connection to cows at all. No vaccine grants 100% immunity. Some are more effective than others. It's hard to predict efficacy for a novel type of vaccination for a novel virus and there's no vaccines for other viruses in the same family. Certainly, this could have been communicated better, but it's not like flu vaccines have 100% efficacy either and they've been around for decades.
- UncleMeat 11mo ago
  Words do matter. But "every member of the government needs to communicate flawlessly 100% of the time during a once-in-a-century pandemic alongside a never-before-seen social media misinformation environment, even in their internal communication" is just not a bar that we can meet. Imagine if they didn't call it a vaccine. "Of course this thing won't work, Fauci isn't even willing to call it a vaccine!"
reenorap 11mo ago
This is false and has never been proven. This was the propaganda that was spread after the vaccine was openly no longer working. What stopped the pandemic was omicron that was so explosively contagious that 98+% of the world got it at the time. After that everyone had natural immunity that caused decreasing symptoms every subsequent time you got infected with a new variant.
- frm88 11mo ago
  What stopped the pandemic was omicron that was so explosively contagious that 98+% of the world got it at the time. After that everyone had natural immunity that caused decreasing symptoms every subsequent time you got infected with a new variant. Source? There was a study in 2024 that researched what exactly lead to the sudden decline in Covid deaths [0]: ...suggest that a phase transition in the molecular structure of the COVID-19 spike protein made the virus less likely to cause severe infections. [0] https://www.springer.com/gp/about-springer/media/research-news/all-english-research-news/how-did-the-covid-pandemic-end-so-abruptly-/27488816 https://www.springer.com/gp/about-springer/media/research-ne... click on the link directly to the study. It's a .pdf.
- ThrowMeAway1618 11mo ago
  And where, exactly, did you get your MD and Phd in epidemiology, Chester? Please provide actual data supporting your ridiculous claim. You won't because you're talking out of your ass and it smells that way too. Don't you have some coloring books to fill in or something?
- Klonoar 11mo ago
  > This is false and has never been proven. You have zero authority to claim such a thing. If you want to try that route, I'd suggest you actually come with something to back up such a line.

fabian2k 11mo ago

Vaccine-induced immunity is better because it comes with drastically lower chances of serious illness or death than the actual infection. There were plenty of studies comparing immunity through infection and vaccination pretty early on. One interesting aspect initially was that it looked like the combination of vaccination and infection was particularly effective. The infection acted like a booster. I'm not familiar with the exact handling of this in the US, but in general it is difficult to count infection as a replacment for vaccination. There is likely much more variability there, there was less data about this available and the simple tests for COVID are not that reliable. Not impossible, but far more complex than requiring vaccination.

reenorap 11mo ago
The point is that mandates forcing people, like my son, who already had COVID to take the vaccine were absolutely wrong. And it also exposed him to the possibility of getting myocarditis from the vaccine, which is openly a risk talked about by the CDC now but was denied before. Natural immunity has been proven time and time again to be much more longer lasting and more effective than vaccination. Once you had COVID, there is no reason whatsoever to force people to get vaccinated. That is simply anti-science.
- xjlin0 11mo ago
  The point is the COVID you son had and the vaccine are different strains
  - reenorap 11mo ago
    Yes, exactly. There was no point in getting vaccinated with that vaccine.

UncleMeat 11mo ago

> That the vaccines worked Now I don't know what "worked" means to you. But we've got a shitload of data on covid deaths post vaccine and the numbers are stark. If you can look at those two lines and say "nah the vaccines didn't do anything" then I really don't know what to say.