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> Musk is a nogo poisoned brand in Europe... that damage his needless psychotic attacks have done won't be forgotten anytime soon. I'd happily buy chinese car i

> Musk is a nogo poisoned brand in Europe... that damage his needless psychotic attacks have done won't be forgotten anytime soon. I'd happily buy chinese car instead of tesla just because of above, if prices were same. But they are far from same, and seeing their progress they may soon be better products overall. This more-or-less summarizes American geopolitical and economic attitudes towards China from 1970 until 2016. "Sure, they're problematic, but so are we, and their product is cheaper, so..."

ben_w 1y ago
"The product is cheaper" is why combustion engines were dominant over batteries and renewables for so long, and also why they're now being displaced so rapidly by them.
- WheatMillington 1y ago
  Batteries were not a viable technology for a variety of reasons until recently. Cost is only one of a number of show-stopping problems with battery technology before circa 20 years ago.
  - jonway 1y ago
    Electric cars were quite popular in the early history of automobiles. It wasn’t until internal combustion development proceeded (mechanical, and resource discovery) that the economics and value proposition flipped. All the show-stopping problems you mentioned applied to internal combustion before. Unless electrical generation gets less efficient somehow, the economics are trending back.
mmooss 1y ago
> This more-or-less summarizes American geopolitical and economic attitudes towards China from 1970 until 2016. That is misleading. First, China wasn't economically productive in 1970, during the Cultural Revolution. It wasn't until the 1990s that things began to subtantially improve, and then take off in the 2000s. Also, they weren't so problematic - they were a good trading partner, and they were democratizing slowly: They had with a major setback in 1989, but were improving until Xi took over. Under Xi, it took a few years to see what would happen, which trends were temporary and which were long-term problems; which could be reversed and which would only get worse. I think the problem calcified, in large part, because the US abandoned universal human rights in large part. If the US doesn't advocate that, who will? How can people in China say that freedom is a right and democracy superior if the US doesn't.

ben_w 1y ago

"The product is cheaper" is why combustion engines were dominant over batteries and renewables for so long, and also why they're now being displaced so rapidly by them.

WheatMillington 1y ago
Batteries were not a viable technology for a variety of reasons until recently. Cost is only one of a number of show-stopping problems with battery technology before circa 20 years ago.
- jonway 1y ago
  Electric cars were quite popular in the early history of automobiles. It wasn’t until internal combustion development proceeded (mechanical, and resource discovery) that the economics and value proposition flipped. All the show-stopping problems you mentioned applied to internal combustion before. Unless electrical generation gets less efficient somehow, the economics are trending back.

mmooss 1y ago

> This more-or-less summarizes American geopolitical and economic attitudes towards China from 1970 until 2016. That is misleading. First, China wasn't economically productive in 1970, during the Cultural Revolution. It wasn't until the 1990s that things began to subtantially improve, and then take off in the 2000s. Also, they weren't so problematic - they were a good trading partner, and they were democratizing slowly: They had with a major setback in 1989, but were improving until Xi took over. Under Xi, it took a few years to see what would happen, which trends were temporary and which were long-term problems; which could be reversed and which would only get worse. I think the problem calcified, in large part, because the US abandoned universal human rights in large part. If the US doesn't advocate that, who will? How can people in China say that freedom is a right and democracy superior if the US doesn't.