6 ms·

Chipotle stock craters: young people without jobs cannot afford their food

35 points by speckx 1y ago

jtf23 1y ago
“You going to just stare at that coffee?” Lillian asked. I smiled at being caught in an unguarded state of preoccupation with my dark thoughts. Then I took a sip of the decaf. “It’s good. Tastes like the real thing,” I said, and this time I was telling the truth. “Nothing hard about making a good cup of coffee,” Lillian said to this customer as she lit up another cigarette. And that statement provided something of an answer to my questions about Lillian and her business. Because the coffee at the Metro Diner didn’t have to be as good as it was, nor did the excellent food served there have to be so carefully prepared or so reasonably priced. That was not how we did things where I happened to work. The company that employed me strived only to serve up the cheapest fare that its customers would tolerate, churn it out as fast as possible, and charge as much as they could get away with. If it were possible to do so, the company would sell what all businesses of its kind dream about selling, creating that which all our efforts were tacitly supposed to achieve: the ultimate product –– Nothing. And for this product they would command the ultimate price –– Everything.
- JaggerJo 1y ago
  great writing style
  - linehedonist 1y ago
    I think from this https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/My_Work_Is_Not_Yet_Done https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/My_Work_Is_Not_Yet_Done
- skeaker 1y ago
  They're saying that subscription based software was inspired by this quote.
metalman 1y ago
That AI is not a bubble might be true, though that this mighty edifice glowing brightly in all freqencys of the spectrum is sitting on quick sand, is another truth.
qgin 1y ago
Chipotle raised their prices 45% in 5 years.
- deleted 1y ago
  [deleted]
- reducesuffering 1y ago
  All takeout food did. I struggle to find why Chipotle would be considered expensive relative to other takeout options. You're getting chicken and 10 additional whole foods options for $10, when most other Mediterranean, Chinese, Japanese, taqueria, etc. options are at least a few $ more.
  - darth_avocado 1y ago
    That’s kind of why Chillis is doing pretty well. It costs almost the same as McDonalds and for a few bucks extra, you’d get a reasonable sit down experience.
    - OkayPhysicist 1y ago
      They're also benefiting from being practically the last man standing in the family dining segment. They're not in a menu category that was going to butt up against nicer sit-down dining places (if Olive Garden, for example, raised their prices much they'd be running up against sit down Italian places, likewise for Red Lobster and nicer seafood). And they adapted well to the COVID-era takeout boom, which suggests that they were actually serving food people would choose to eat, not merely offering the sit down experience like say Applebees.
    - mrguyorama 1y ago
      All the expensive local run city restaurants benefited from inflation. The McDonalds burger went from $12 to $18, but it's still the same terrible product. The hipster burger joint price went from $20 to $22, and that is a dramatically better burger. The difference is that the local burger place doesn't have to show a 7% increase in profit year after year in perpetuity. Their price was set for "I can live a modest life off the profit and pay my employees a wage competitive enough to actually staff my restaurant, and therefore also end up with people more competent than your average fast food worker". That gives you more value per dollar, because more of your dollar is being spent on actual product and service rather than paying absurd and unjustifiable salaries to an entire building full of overpaid "management" and administration in the highest cost of living part of the country. Fewer shareholders to pay too. So instead of the price delta between absolute trash and quality being $8, now it's $4. I am told inflation is a bad thing, but it is making lots of small business that we desperately want and need much more competitive. A smaller business has far less pricing power and therefore less ability to pass on a cost increase.
knowitnone3 1y ago
I'm sure they can fix this buy giving the CEO another salary increase
parineum 1y ago
What food can young people without jobs afford?
- yetihehe 1y ago
  Plastic wrapped instant noodles packages.
  - saltcured 1y ago
    And, some may have the luck or guidance to know rice, beans, lentils, etc. can be bought in bulk quantities and stored long enough to be very cost-efficient.
    - yetihehe 1y ago
      Such people are not jobless very long.
  - mrguyorama 1y ago
    In 2012 a single package of name brand instant ramen was 25 cents exactly, no tax on food items in my state, I literally bought one with a quarter from my car's coin tray once for a weird craving. As of this year, that same single packet of ramen is now 50 cents. 100% inflation over 13ish years. For an item made by an assembly line out of dirt cheap components. The commodity price of wheat has more price movement than I expected, but roughly has only gone up by 20% in the same time frame.
- ahmeneeroe-v2 1y ago
  And what food do we as a society think is appropriate for them to afford? That is, what structure (social services, etc) do we need to have in place to enable that should-statement
  - BriggyDwiggs42 1y ago
    We probably shouldn’t have the government lobster truck that comes by and gives everybody a fresh lobster, but people’s nutritional needs should be met. In modern society with modern agriculture, we could afford to do that just fine. I think the thing that’s really broken right now is the food environment that people have to choose from. It makes a program like snap or EBT less cost-effective in terms of getting nutrition to people.
darth_avocado 1y ago
I’ve said this before on HN. Behind all the AI enthusiasm and evangelism on HN and tech industry in general, people forget: When most people are out of a job, AI won’t be Doordashing you $15 burrito from Chipotle that cost $30 to deliver. You need a backup plan for when things go South and so far, there doesn’t even seem to be a conversation going on about it.
- adfm 1y ago
  No doubt. The ingredients to make a Mission-style burrito hover around $2 in quantity. Rice and beans are cheap filler and a 10-pack of 13.5-inch flour tortillas is $3.50. Prices fluctuate, but definitely not enough to justify the current fast food pricing models, which seems to assume everyone works at a FAANG company, which is increasingly not the case. Ditch Chipotle and hit La Cumbre instead.
cool_man_bob 1y ago
The food seems to have become worse and worse too. I’m pretty sure the last several times I’ve eaten chipotle, across several states, I’ve been given hard rice and cold meat. I don’t remember it being that common a decade ago.
- foxyv 1y ago
  They just can't ever get the rice right.
standardly 1y ago
Thank God taco trucks have become practically ubiquitous, even in small cities and suburbs. Not always cheaper than Chipotle, but definitely better quality (and usually cheaper..)
- BriggyDwiggs42 1y ago
  That sounds excellent but I tend to find stuff through the internet. How do you know where they’ll be?
  - standardly 1y ago
    You'd be surprised how many show up on google maps if you search for tacos lol. App idea? Food truck tracker? I'd download it. Anyone wanna collab?
    - BriggyDwiggs42 1y ago
      Food truck tracker would be sick. Crowdsource the data? If it were even slightly noteworthy the trucks would give u their location.
- ashtakeaway 1y ago
  Make sure to eat at one with their food license displayed or readily visible. Botulism is not cool, and food trucks are already hard to regulate. I love food trucks though.
creaghpatr 1y ago
Someone tweeted it somewhere, but Chipotle should make a burrito that is half the size and half the price.
- lucidguppy 1y ago
  They make them that big because they try to justify the price.
- indigodaddy 1y ago
  Lol they used to be double or even triple the size and same/less price
- jandrese 1y ago
  As opposed to their current business plan of making a burrito that is half the size and twice the price? A decade ago going to Chipotle was a treat. You'd get a fresh and honestly gigantic burrito for a pretty reasonable price. Sometimes I would stop after work and pick up burritos/bowls for the entire family. I went a couple of years ago and it was just sad. They didn't shrink the tortilla so I ended up with a burrito that was practically double wrapped after they skimped on all of the fillings and it cost something in the double digits. I have not been back. The only good thing was in the old days the line would be pretty long and it would be a wait, but last time I went I was able to walk right up and order. It's not like Chipotle doesn't have plenty of competition. There's a Qdoba right down the streets from mine and a Califorina Tortilla in the other. Across town there is a Cafe Rio. It feels like some middle management dweeb thought we wouldn't notice when they tried to maximize profits.
  - darth_avocado 1y ago
    The funny thing about Chipotle is that in Denver, you have Illegal Pete’s which is kind of like Chipotle if they never went national. Somehow, with the economies of scale, Chipotle is still more expensive, has smaller portions, fewer toppings and menu options and overall an objective worse experience when it comes to food and the dining experience. I am always amazed and confused how that’s possible at all.
CompoundEyes 1y ago
I had to take a long distance road across the US for work in the spring. I planned my hotel for the night to be around a Chipotle along the way. It’s one of the few options that isn’t synthetic and doesn’t make me feel the awful “I’m traveling for work trash diet” feeling. Some actual vegetables and protein at least. Didn’t have time to seek out local places and delivery is hit or miss. Is it possible their prices are up because the cost of “actual food” has gone up? Beyond that you’re eating low quality borderline carnival food (sugar, cheese blob, deep fried) and mono sodium glutamate loaded Christian faith based chicken sandwich offerings.
rockostrich 1y ago
It's strange to me to see Chipotle as the face of this. You can still get a chicken burrito which has 60g of protein and 1000 calories for just about $10. In my opinion, the only issue with their food is that the sodium is a bit high which is pretty unavoidable with fast food. A similar burrito from any other local place near me is $15 or more. These might be a bit healthier but it's 50% more expensive. You can definitely meal prep everything for a Chipotle burrito or bowl for about half the price meal but that doesn't factor in the time to grocery shop and cook (and also buy tortillas from Chipotle because for some reason you can't get them as a consumer from any wholesaler...). I opt for making burritos that can be frozen instead and it's nice having a freezer filled with 3-4 different options that take 5 minutes to defrost/reheat in the microwave. @stealth_health_life on instagram has a bunch of great recipes but it's also not really hard to just prep individual burrito fillings and make your own.
- darth_avocado 1y ago
  Chicken burrito costs $11.50 without any additions before taxes where I am. Closer to $12.85 with taxes. Chipotle lists its portion size for protein to be 4oz which roughly translates to 27g of protein IF they don’t skimp on the portions (which they usually do. Unless the rest of the ingredients make up for 33g of protein, it’s very hard to get what you’re suggesting at Chipotle anymore. On the other hand, the Mexican truck down the street sells $3 street tacos with way more meat.
  - pirates 1y ago
    The family-owned Mexican restaurant literally across the street from the nearest Chipotle sells their burritos starting at 7.99, 9.99 if you want to add a full side order of rice and beans. I can get two full meals for almost the same price as Chipotle. Sounds like OP’s local places are ripping them off.
    - rockostrich 1y ago
      I wouldn't really call it ripping me off if that's what they need to set their prices at in order to survive. NJ is an expensive state so it's not really surprising. I was just using a couple of the closest places to me in the suburbs as an example. If I were to go into a city like New Brunswick which has a large hispanic population and a ton of local places then there are definitely spots with cheaper options but there are still a ton that are more expensive than Chipotle.
mgh2 1y ago
Blaming the economy or customers is not going to fix the real problem: decline in product value - quality, quantity and price.
rekabis 1y ago
> Households that make $100,000 or less make up about 40% of its total sales. Strange that they chose such a bizarrely high household income value, when the American median for people 25-35 - their stated “core demographic” - is just $34,000/yr. Median. Half make more, _half make less._ Talk about metrics being badly out of whack.
- BizarroLand 1y ago
  Also consider that Households typically mean 2 income families, so a $100,000 household is one where collectively both earners average about $24/hr with full time jobs. It is a very attainable situation for anyone not living too far from a large city.

35 points by speckx 1y ago

“You going to just stare at that coffee?” Lillian asked. I smiled at being caught in an unguarded state of preoccupation with my dark thoughts. Then I took a sip of the decaf. “It’s good. Tastes like the real thing,” I said, and this time I was telling the truth. “Nothing hard about making a good cup of coffee,” Lillian said to this customer as she lit up another cigarette. And that statement provided something of an answer to my questions about Lillian and her business. Because the coffee at the Metro Diner didn’t have to be as good as it was, nor did the excellent food served there have to be so carefully prepared or so reasonably priced. That was not how we did things where I happened to work. The company that employed me strived only to serve up the cheapest fare that its customers would tolerate, churn it out as fast as possible, and charge as much as they could get away with. If it were possible to do so, the company would sell what all businesses of its kind dream about selling, creating that which all our efforts were tacitly supposed to achieve: the ultimate product –– Nothing. And for this product they would command the ultimate price –– Everything.

JaggerJo 1y ago
great writing style
- linehedonist 1y ago
  I think from this https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/My_Work_Is_Not_Yet_Done https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/My_Work_Is_Not_Yet_Done
skeaker 1y ago
They're saying that subscription based software was inspired by this quote.

metalman 1y ago

That AI is not a bubble might be true, though that this mighty edifice glowing brightly in all freqencys of the spectrum is sitting on quick sand, is another truth.

qgin 1y ago

Chipotle raised their prices 45% in 5 years.

deleted 1y ago
[deleted]
reducesuffering 1y ago
All takeout food did. I struggle to find why Chipotle would be considered expensive relative to other takeout options. You're getting chicken and 10 additional whole foods options for $10, when most other Mediterranean, Chinese, Japanese, taqueria, etc. options are at least a few $ more.
- darth_avocado 1y ago
  That’s kind of why Chillis is doing pretty well. It costs almost the same as McDonalds and for a few bucks extra, you’d get a reasonable sit down experience.
  - OkayPhysicist 1y ago
    They're also benefiting from being practically the last man standing in the family dining segment. They're not in a menu category that was going to butt up against nicer sit-down dining places (if Olive Garden, for example, raised their prices much they'd be running up against sit down Italian places, likewise for Red Lobster and nicer seafood). And they adapted well to the COVID-era takeout boom, which suggests that they were actually serving food people would choose to eat, not merely offering the sit down experience like say Applebees.
  - mrguyorama 1y ago
    All the expensive local run city restaurants benefited from inflation. The McDonalds burger went from $12 to $18, but it's still the same terrible product. The hipster burger joint price went from $20 to $22, and that is a dramatically better burger. The difference is that the local burger place doesn't have to show a 7% increase in profit year after year in perpetuity. Their price was set for "I can live a modest life off the profit and pay my employees a wage competitive enough to actually staff my restaurant, and therefore also end up with people more competent than your average fast food worker". That gives you more value per dollar, because more of your dollar is being spent on actual product and service rather than paying absurd and unjustifiable salaries to an entire building full of overpaid "management" and administration in the highest cost of living part of the country. Fewer shareholders to pay too. So instead of the price delta between absolute trash and quality being $8, now it's $4. I am told inflation is a bad thing, but it is making lots of small business that we desperately want and need much more competitive. A smaller business has far less pricing power and therefore less ability to pass on a cost increase.

knowitnone3 1y ago

I'm sure they can fix this buy giving the CEO another salary increase

parineum 1y ago

What food can young people without jobs afford?

yetihehe 1y ago
Plastic wrapped instant noodles packages.
- saltcured 1y ago
  And, some may have the luck or guidance to know rice, beans, lentils, etc. can be bought in bulk quantities and stored long enough to be very cost-efficient.
  - yetihehe 1y ago
    Such people are not jobless very long.
- mrguyorama 1y ago
  In 2012 a single package of name brand instant ramen was 25 cents exactly, no tax on food items in my state, I literally bought one with a quarter from my car's coin tray once for a weird craving. As of this year, that same single packet of ramen is now 50 cents. 100% inflation over 13ish years. For an item made by an assembly line out of dirt cheap components. The commodity price of wheat has more price movement than I expected, but roughly has only gone up by 20% in the same time frame.
ahmeneeroe-v2 1y ago
And what food do we as a society think is appropriate for them to afford? That is, what structure (social services, etc) do we need to have in place to enable that should-statement
- BriggyDwiggs42 1y ago
  We probably shouldn’t have the government lobster truck that comes by and gives everybody a fresh lobster, but people’s nutritional needs should be met. In modern society with modern agriculture, we could afford to do that just fine. I think the thing that’s really broken right now is the food environment that people have to choose from. It makes a program like snap or EBT less cost-effective in terms of getting nutrition to people.

darth_avocado 1y ago

I’ve said this before on HN. Behind all the AI enthusiasm and evangelism on HN and tech industry in general, people forget: When most people are out of a job, AI won’t be Doordashing you $15 burrito from Chipotle that cost $30 to deliver. You need a backup plan for when things go South and so far, there doesn’t even seem to be a conversation going on about it.

adfm 1y ago
No doubt. The ingredients to make a Mission-style burrito hover around $2 in quantity. Rice and beans are cheap filler and a 10-pack of 13.5-inch flour tortillas is $3.50. Prices fluctuate, but definitely not enough to justify the current fast food pricing models, which seems to assume everyone works at a FAANG company, which is increasingly not the case. Ditch Chipotle and hit La Cumbre instead.

cool_man_bob 1y ago

The food seems to have become worse and worse too. I’m pretty sure the last several times I’ve eaten chipotle, across several states, I’ve been given hard rice and cold meat. I don’t remember it being that common a decade ago.

foxyv 1y ago
They just can't ever get the rice right.

standardly 1y ago

Thank God taco trucks have become practically ubiquitous, even in small cities and suburbs. Not always cheaper than Chipotle, but definitely better quality (and usually cheaper..)

BriggyDwiggs42 1y ago
That sounds excellent but I tend to find stuff through the internet. How do you know where they’ll be?
- standardly 1y ago
  You'd be surprised how many show up on google maps if you search for tacos lol. App idea? Food truck tracker? I'd download it. Anyone wanna collab?
  - BriggyDwiggs42 1y ago
    Food truck tracker would be sick. Crowdsource the data? If it were even slightly noteworthy the trucks would give u their location.
ashtakeaway 1y ago
Make sure to eat at one with their food license displayed or readily visible. Botulism is not cool, and food trucks are already hard to regulate. I love food trucks though.

creaghpatr 1y ago

Someone tweeted it somewhere, but Chipotle should make a burrito that is half the size and half the price.

lucidguppy 1y ago
They make them that big because they try to justify the price.
indigodaddy 1y ago
Lol they used to be double or even triple the size and same/less price
jandrese 1y ago
As opposed to their current business plan of making a burrito that is half the size and twice the price? A decade ago going to Chipotle was a treat. You'd get a fresh and honestly gigantic burrito for a pretty reasonable price. Sometimes I would stop after work and pick up burritos/bowls for the entire family. I went a couple of years ago and it was just sad. They didn't shrink the tortilla so I ended up with a burrito that was practically double wrapped after they skimped on all of the fillings and it cost something in the double digits. I have not been back. The only good thing was in the old days the line would be pretty long and it would be a wait, but last time I went I was able to walk right up and order. It's not like Chipotle doesn't have plenty of competition. There's a Qdoba right down the streets from mine and a Califorina Tortilla in the other. Across town there is a Cafe Rio. It feels like some middle management dweeb thought we wouldn't notice when they tried to maximize profits.
- darth_avocado 1y ago
  The funny thing about Chipotle is that in Denver, you have Illegal Pete’s which is kind of like Chipotle if they never went national. Somehow, with the economies of scale, Chipotle is still more expensive, has smaller portions, fewer toppings and menu options and overall an objective worse experience when it comes to food and the dining experience. I am always amazed and confused how that’s possible at all.

CompoundEyes 1y ago

I had to take a long distance road across the US for work in the spring. I planned my hotel for the night to be around a Chipotle along the way. It’s one of the few options that isn’t synthetic and doesn’t make me feel the awful “I’m traveling for work trash diet” feeling. Some actual vegetables and protein at least. Didn’t have time to seek out local places and delivery is hit or miss. Is it possible their prices are up because the cost of “actual food” has gone up? Beyond that you’re eating low quality borderline carnival food (sugar, cheese blob, deep fried) and mono sodium glutamate loaded Christian faith based chicken sandwich offerings.

rockostrich 1y ago

It's strange to me to see Chipotle as the face of this. You can still get a chicken burrito which has 60g of protein and 1000 calories for just about $10. In my opinion, the only issue with their food is that the sodium is a bit high which is pretty unavoidable with fast food. A similar burrito from any other local place near me is $15 or more. These might be a bit healthier but it's 50% more expensive. You can definitely meal prep everything for a Chipotle burrito or bowl for about half the price meal but that doesn't factor in the time to grocery shop and cook (and also buy tortillas from Chipotle because for some reason you can't get them as a consumer from any wholesaler...). I opt for making burritos that can be frozen instead and it's nice having a freezer filled with 3-4 different options that take 5 minutes to defrost/reheat in the microwave. @stealth_health_life on instagram has a bunch of great recipes but it's also not really hard to just prep individual burrito fillings and make your own.

darth_avocado 1y ago
Chicken burrito costs $11.50 without any additions before taxes where I am. Closer to $12.85 with taxes. Chipotle lists its portion size for protein to be 4oz which roughly translates to 27g of protein IF they don’t skimp on the portions (which they usually do. Unless the rest of the ingredients make up for 33g of protein, it’s very hard to get what you’re suggesting at Chipotle anymore. On the other hand, the Mexican truck down the street sells $3 street tacos with way more meat.
- pirates 1y ago
  The family-owned Mexican restaurant literally across the street from the nearest Chipotle sells their burritos starting at 7.99, 9.99 if you want to add a full side order of rice and beans. I can get two full meals for almost the same price as Chipotle. Sounds like OP’s local places are ripping them off.
  - rockostrich 1y ago
    I wouldn't really call it ripping me off if that's what they need to set their prices at in order to survive. NJ is an expensive state so it's not really surprising. I was just using a couple of the closest places to me in the suburbs as an example. If I were to go into a city like New Brunswick which has a large hispanic population and a ton of local places then there are definitely spots with cheaper options but there are still a ton that are more expensive than Chipotle.

mgh2 1y ago

Blaming the economy or customers is not going to fix the real problem: decline in product value - quality, quantity and price.

rekabis 1y ago

> Households that make $100,000 or less make up about 40% of its total sales. Strange that they chose such a bizarrely high household income value, when the American median for people 25-35 - their stated “core demographic” - is just $34,000/yr. Median. Half make more, _half make less._ Talk about metrics being badly out of whack.

BizarroLand 1y ago
Also consider that Households typically mean 2 income families, so a $100,000 household is one where collectively both earners average about $24/hr with full time jobs. It is a very attainable situation for anyone not living too far from a large city.