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raises hand I hate python. Every python codebase i’ve had to look after has rotten to the point it doesn’t even build and is a maintenance nightmare. I also h

raises hand I hate python. Every python codebase i’ve had to look after has rotten to the point it doesn’t even build and is a maintenance nightmare. I also hate whitespace instead of {}

TheFlyingFish 1y ago
uv helps a lot with the first problem. Not so much with the second, though.
liampulles 1y ago
These issues are true of most legacy codebases I've worked on in other languages, but I think language design can be a factor here. Do you have any thoughts on if and how Python has led to this rot?
- jiggawatts 1y ago
  Another comment has explained this already, but the lack of dependency pinning and the general "it's just a script" attitude isn't conducive to long-term stability. During the early days of the llama local LLM runner, I was shocked to discover that releases weren't buildable mere days after being tagged in Git! Days! Other platforms like Java and .NET enjoy one to two decades of life for source before it becomes mildly challenging to build.
  - liampulles 1y ago
    I think that is a totally fair criticism. There is something to be said about a language being too easy to hack something together with, it's something that makes backend JavaScript coding a long term pain as well I think.
  - wiseowise 1y ago
    > Other platforms like Java and .NET enjoy one to two decades of life for source before it becomes mildly challenging to build. Java enjoys months of life for source before it becomes impossible to build, because some prehistoric version of Gradle with shitty Groovy script stopped working.
muyuu 1y ago
i resist saying that i hate python because that implies that i don't hate aspects of basically all alternatives (or all that are popular anyway) like with everything else these days, it's about living with it and try to make the best of the good parts of it i remember getting told in the 00s that i would get used to and love the whitespace-based block definition, and boy i hate it now more than ever with 1000s of hours spent looking at and coding in python but it is what it is, for whatever reason it has become a must in many particular industries a lot like Java took over some earlier on although it seems to be fading, and javascript is a must in others it really isn't just about programming languages that these days you either learn to live with some massive annoyances and practices you may hate, or withdraw entirely from society
- cyberpunk 1y ago
  Oh, don’t get me wrong i don’t refuse to work with it or anything so extreme. These days I end up writing code in any of a handful of languages. Given the choice though I typically don’t teach for python unless there’s an obvious reason to (some good library for my task or a team i am helping is only python people / devops etc)

raises hand I hate python. Every python codebase i’ve had to look after has rotten to the point it doesn’t even build and is a maintenance nightmare. I also hate whitespace instead of {}

TheFlyingFish 1y ago

uv helps a lot with the first problem. Not so much with the second, though.

liampulles 1y ago

These issues are true of most legacy codebases I've worked on in other languages, but I think language design can be a factor here. Do you have any thoughts on if and how Python has led to this rot?

jiggawatts 1y ago
Another comment has explained this already, but the lack of dependency pinning and the general "it's just a script" attitude isn't conducive to long-term stability. During the early days of the llama local LLM runner, I was shocked to discover that releases weren't buildable mere days after being tagged in Git! Days! Other platforms like Java and .NET enjoy one to two decades of life for source before it becomes mildly challenging to build.
- liampulles 1y ago
  I think that is a totally fair criticism. There is something to be said about a language being too easy to hack something together with, it's something that makes backend JavaScript coding a long term pain as well I think.
- wiseowise 1y ago
  > Other platforms like Java and .NET enjoy one to two decades of life for source before it becomes mildly challenging to build. Java enjoys months of life for source before it becomes impossible to build, because some prehistoric version of Gradle with shitty Groovy script stopped working.

muyuu 1y ago

i resist saying that i hate python because that implies that i don't hate aspects of basically all alternatives (or all that are popular anyway) like with everything else these days, it's about living with it and try to make the best of the good parts of it i remember getting told in the 00s that i would get used to and love the whitespace-based block definition, and boy i hate it now more than ever with 1000s of hours spent looking at and coding in python but it is what it is, for whatever reason it has become a must in many particular industries a lot like Java took over some earlier on although it seems to be fading, and javascript is a must in others it really isn't just about programming languages that these days you either learn to live with some massive annoyances and practices you may hate, or withdraw entirely from society

cyberpunk 1y ago
Oh, don’t get me wrong i don’t refuse to work with it or anything so extreme. These days I end up writing code in any of a handful of languages. Given the choice though I typically don’t teach for python unless there’s an obvious reason to (some good library for my task or a team i am helping is only python people / devops etc)