3 ms·

You're linking to pre-covid studies, that mention some types of benefits (for specific reasons like logistics benefits for businesses relying on physical materi

by wubrr 1y ago

You're linking to pre-covid studies, that mention some types of benefits (for specific reasons like logistics benefits for businesses relying on physical materials/goos, or physical access to people for the purposes of networking), for some kinds of industries, and also mention that these benefits are not seen for some industries. > Sometimes cluster strategies still do not produce enough of a positive impact to be justified in certain industries. Let's take a step back and look at the fundamentals of a tech company who's employees are remote - what are the specific benefits of having a San Francisco office?

JumpCrisscross 1y ago
> linking to pre-covid studies I'm linking to studies summarising a century of work. There is no evidence Covid changed this. Exhibit A for Covid having not changed this is the continuing supremacy of Silicon Valley (tech), Shenzhen (manufacturing) and New York (finance) as industrial clusters that others have tried to replicate (everyone, America and Miami, respectively) and failed. > Let's take a step back and look at the fundamentals of a tech company who's employees are remote - what are the specific benefits of having a San Francisco office? Proximity to investors. Proximity to customers. Proximity to a skilled employee pool. Proxomity to acquirers. (A lot of deals happen at cocktail parties and ski trips.) By the way, I'm not arguing anyone needs an office. Just people physically and and proximate to the cluster.
- wubrr 1y ago
  > Exhibit A for Covid having not changed this is the continuing supremacy of Silicon Valley (tech) You mean like when China built chatgpt 4 in a weekend and open-sourced it for giggles? > Shenzhen (manufacturing) ..or you mean how US manufacturing 'clusters' almost completely disappeared/replaced by Chinese ones? > Proximity to investors. Proximity to customers. Proximity to a skilled employee pool. Proxomity to acquirers. Right, cause you have to physically pet every investor on the head to fundraise, your remote employees must be in san fran cause network latency interferes with their windows remote desktop workflow, and, for some reason, you have to be physically close to your customers when you're selling your web-only llm wrapper saas.
  - uvaursi 1y ago
    > You mean like when China built chatgpt 4 in a weekend and open-sourced it for giggles? Link?
    - fragmede 1y ago
      It's hyperbole, but they're referring to Deepseek-r1.
  - SR2Z 1y ago
    > You mean like when China built chatgpt 4 in a weekend and open-sourced it for giggles? DeepSeek R1 is an amazing feat. It's not at the same level as other large frontier models from American companies, just close enough to make them sweat. > ..or you mean how US manufacturing 'clusters' almost completely disappeared/replaced by Chinese ones? The value of goods manufactured in the US has never been higher. US manufacturing focuses on goods at the top of the value chain: jetliners, cars, semiconductors, medical scanners, and other advanced electronics. These tend to cluster in a few places - for example, Long Beach is a hub of space and avionics manufacturing, Texas has the "Silicon Prarie," and Boeing in Everett is one of the major employers in the region. Manufacturing has disappeared as a share of GDP, but that's not because we make less stuff. > Right, cause you have to physically pet every investor on the head to fundraise, your remote employees must be in san fran cause network latency interferes with their windows remote desktop workflow, and, for some reason, you have to be physically close to your customers when you're selling your web-only llm wrapper saas. You sound sarcastic, but YES. You do generally have to physically be present to make deals. It is obviously theoretically possible to run a world-leading software company fully remote. Despite that, most of them are in-person at least a few days a week. If you want to take advantage of SV's easy VC money, you absolutely have to be present. Companies are not purely about the numbers. A lot of business is imprecise and heavily dependent on things like just plain LIKING the people you're in bed with, and unfortunately there is no substitute for being in the same room as someone to make a decision like that.
    - com2kid 1y ago
      > Manufacturing has disappeared as a share of GDP, but that's not because we make less stuff. We assemble. The actual parts are largely made overseas. Because location matters, assemblers in China are able to do better work at a much lower price, see every Chinese EV company, or Chinese drone companies. Heck in China you can buy a competent Chinese EV motorscooter for less than a kids bicycle in America.

by wubrr 1y ago

JumpCrisscross 1y ago

> linking to pre-covid studies I'm linking to studies summarising a century of work. There is no evidence Covid changed this. Exhibit A for Covid having not changed this is the continuing supremacy of Silicon Valley (tech), Shenzhen (manufacturing) and New York (finance) as industrial clusters that others have tried to replicate (everyone, America and Miami, respectively) and failed. > Let's take a step back and look at the fundamentals of a tech company who's employees are remote - what are the specific benefits of having a San Francisco office? Proximity to investors. Proximity to customers. Proximity to a skilled employee pool. Proxomity to acquirers. (A lot of deals happen at cocktail parties and ski trips.) By the way, I'm not arguing anyone needs an office. Just people physically and and proximate to the cluster.

wubrr 1y ago
> Exhibit A for Covid having not changed this is the continuing supremacy of Silicon Valley (tech) You mean like when China built chatgpt 4 in a weekend and open-sourced it for giggles? > Shenzhen (manufacturing) ..or you mean how US manufacturing 'clusters' almost completely disappeared/replaced by Chinese ones? > Proximity to investors. Proximity to customers. Proximity to a skilled employee pool. Proxomity to acquirers. Right, cause you have to physically pet every investor on the head to fundraise, your remote employees must be in san fran cause network latency interferes with their windows remote desktop workflow, and, for some reason, you have to be physically close to your customers when you're selling your web-only llm wrapper saas.
- uvaursi 1y ago
  > You mean like when China built chatgpt 4 in a weekend and open-sourced it for giggles? Link?
  - fragmede 1y ago
    It's hyperbole, but they're referring to Deepseek-r1.
- SR2Z 1y ago
  > You mean like when China built chatgpt 4 in a weekend and open-sourced it for giggles? DeepSeek R1 is an amazing feat. It's not at the same level as other large frontier models from American companies, just close enough to make them sweat. > ..or you mean how US manufacturing 'clusters' almost completely disappeared/replaced by Chinese ones? The value of goods manufactured in the US has never been higher. US manufacturing focuses on goods at the top of the value chain: jetliners, cars, semiconductors, medical scanners, and other advanced electronics. These tend to cluster in a few places - for example, Long Beach is a hub of space and avionics manufacturing, Texas has the "Silicon Prarie," and Boeing in Everett is one of the major employers in the region. Manufacturing has disappeared as a share of GDP, but that's not because we make less stuff. > Right, cause you have to physically pet every investor on the head to fundraise, your remote employees must be in san fran cause network latency interferes with their windows remote desktop workflow, and, for some reason, you have to be physically close to your customers when you're selling your web-only llm wrapper saas. You sound sarcastic, but YES. You do generally have to physically be present to make deals. It is obviously theoretically possible to run a world-leading software company fully remote. Despite that, most of them are in-person at least a few days a week. If you want to take advantage of SV's easy VC money, you absolutely have to be present. Companies are not purely about the numbers. A lot of business is imprecise and heavily dependent on things like just plain LIKING the people you're in bed with, and unfortunately there is no substitute for being in the same room as someone to make a decision like that.
  - com2kid 1y ago
    > Manufacturing has disappeared as a share of GDP, but that's not because we make less stuff. We assemble. The actual parts are largely made overseas. Because location matters, assemblers in China are able to do better work at a much lower price, see every Chinese EV company, or Chinese drone companies. Heck in China you can buy a competent Chinese EV motorscooter for less than a kids bicycle in America.