5 ms·

So first, they have metal backs which get scratched and everybody complains (first iPhone). Then they move to plastic (3G) and everybody is happy until they act

by pilif 14y ago

So first, they have metal backs which get scratched and everybody complains (first iPhone). Then they move to plastic (3G) and everybody is happy until they actually use the phone at which point everybody complains about the cheap "plasticy" feeling. So they go ahead and announce the iPhone 4 with a glass back. Everybody is happy after the announcement that the cheap plastic days are finally over, but once the phone comes out, everybody complains about scratches, or worse, breakage (even though, personally, I love the touch-and-feel of the iPhone 4(S) and so far, neither the front nor the back broke). So finally, they release the iPhone 5, again with a metal back. "Finally! No more breaking risk" everybody says after the keynote. Then the phone comes out and everybody starts complaining about scratches again. So what's left? What material would you suggest they could use? I realize it's not always the same people rejoicing that are then complaining, but I do see kind of a pattern here.

yread 14y ago
> so far, neither the front nor the back broke careful there, coworker told me exactly the same thing and the next day his glass cracked :)
kevhsu 14y ago
The casing of the Nexus One has none of those problems AFAIK. The macbook pros are quite durable to scratches and scuffs, so perhaps they could have used the same material/processes. Not sure about the iPhone 5 since I haven't handled one in person yet.
- jrajav 14y ago
  Anecdotal counterargument ho. I've owned a unibody MBP for only a year or so and it has several visible scratches, especially on the underside. It doesn't bother me, at least not as much as a case would, but based on my own experience I definitely wouldn't say "quite durable." I also wouldn't prefer any other material.
- roc 14y ago
  > "The macbook pros are quite durable to scratches and scuffs, so perhaps they could have used the same material/processes." They do. On the white/silver iphone5. And it, by all accounts, handles wear just like the unibody macbooks. The issue only relates to the black/graphite iPhone5, due the coating used to make it appear black/graphite. The iPhone had a metal back that exposed a black sub-surface with wear - and people complained. The iPhone 3G/3GS had a plastic back that scratched, chipped, cracked and was known to develop discolored stress marks - and people complained. The iPhone 4/4S had a glass back that chipped, scratched and shattered - and people complained. I'm not sure about the Nexus One, having never seen one. But I am fairly certain that no matter what Apple makes a phone with, they can not ship anything that's literally perfect. And they will ship millions, with the initial sales tilted toward obsessives and perfectionists. These people have always found things to complain about and they will always find things to complain about. Further, the press knows Apple articles are an eyeball gold mine, particularly Apple articles about a controversy, so they will always make as big a deal out of anything that they can. See also: the 'yellow' screen glue issues; 'antennagate'; the possibility that repeated application and removal of cases to an iPhone4/4S might cause cracks; the stress cracks on the 3G; wear on the silver face band around the 3G/3GS; wear on the original iPhone back; dead pixels on the 4; etc.
- linhat 14y ago
  Nexus One owner here. My device has a lot of scratches and scuffs, it has been magically lifting itself out of my pocket on a few occasions including riding a bike at full speed. Needless to say, when it hit the ground it not only totally disassembled itself, it also received a few more scratches here and there. My MacBook Pro is different by the way, no scratches after lots and lots of usage. The verdict: I couldn't care less. It's a phone and after putting the battery back in and the cover on, it never ceased to work, it didn't even change my user experience in any way (broken glass, buttons etc.) I would not buy a phone that requires me to put in in an ugly case, but I would also not care much about a few scratches here and there as long as the phone doesn't break. So if you buy a phone partially for it's supposedly amazing design and then hide it inside those ugly rubber casings or whine about small scratches, well, than you lost me along the way.
bryanlarsen 14y ago
"What material would you suggest they could use?" There are plenty of plastics out there that don't break or scratch easily. And when they do scratch, it's a solid color so the scratch isn't readily visible. Most other phone companies use one of those.
- pilif 14y ago
  Yes. They tried that with the iPhone 3G. People didn't like the cheap "plasticy" feeling.
  - blub 14y ago
    Because it was a cheap, plasticy plastic :) The premium kind in the Lumia series beats any iPhone up to 4S. Haven't tried the 5 yet, though I think metal is a particularly poor choice.
checker 14y ago
Did you read the article? Extremetech seems to believe that it's a flaw in the adonizing process: "Schiller must be referring to the fact that anodization simply isn’t strong enough to withstand everyday use. We know this isn’t the case, though, as anodized aluminium is very well understood and used in a massive gamut of applications — including military, where the anodized coating certainly doesn’t just scratch off." Also, from another extremetech article it links to: "Usually another protective layer of sealant or lacquer is added to make the it more wear-resistant — but sadly it seems like the iPhone 5 lacks that extra protection." The iPhone 5's adonization seems to be more fragile than other adonized devices. <strikethrough>They've been coloring the iPods for years and nobody has complained this much.</strikethrough>
- nsxwolf 14y ago
  The second generation anodized iPod nano scratched if you looked at it funny.
  - checker 14y ago
    You are correct: http://news.cnet.com/8301-13579_3-10149328-37.html http://news.cnet.com/8301-13579_3-10149328-37.html
- vonmoltke 14y ago
  From personal experience, I have had an anodized aluminum computer case for over ten years, and in all my accessing and bumping into that case I have yet to scratch the coating.
ja27 14y ago
"So what's left? What material would you suggest they could use?" Type III Hard Anodized Aluminum, not the thinner, weaker Type II they apparently used. Also, a little more texture on the back would have disguised scratches better. I carried this HA III flashlight on my keychain for years with surprising little wear, given that it's constantly scraping against keys, key rings, and other metal tools. http://www.arcflashlight.com/arc-aaa.shtml http://www.arcflashlight.com/arc-aaa.shtml
blub 14y ago
Actually Apple are pretty bad at picking phone materials period. Glass is probably the poorest material possible for the obvious reason. The fact that yours didn't yet break is irrelevant. Aluminum is yet another bad choice. It is cold to the touch during winter, it's slippery and if you're wearing a ring it will scratch the back. Nokia made the same mistake with the N8 and the E7. The answer is high quality plastic, like on the N9 or Lumia 800/900/920. This feels excellent in the hand and is also very tough. Another option might be rubberized plastic as seen on some Android models.
- arn 14y ago
  But making it out of plastic would lose some of the thinness/strength benefits from a unibody aluminum enclosure. Apple uses a single block of aluminum: http://thetechblock.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/iphone5_toolpath.jpeg http://thetechblock.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/iphone5_t...
  - blub 14y ago
    Could be. The Nokias I mentioned use one block of plastic (or polycarbonate as they call it), but they are indeed thicker. As an anecdote my laptop (MBA) and phone (N8) have a full aluminum body. I prefer the high quality plastic of the Thinkpad & N9 though, it's "friendlier" to the touch than the cold slippery metal.
- vonmoltke 14y ago
  > Actually Apple are pretty bad at picking phone materials period. Which is funny, because they filed a patent[1] over two years ago for a process to make scratch-resistant stainless steel. [1] http://www.geek.com/articles/apple/apple-to-patent-process-for-scratch-resistant-stainless-steel-2010111/ http://www.geek.com/articles/apple/apple-to-patent-process-f...
  - spartango 14y ago
    Stainless steel is a pretty interesting material, but probably not a good choice for this design. A new variant of stainless probably makes it an even poorer choice (because full characterization is a prerequisite): - Some variants of stainless steel are ferromagnetic, which would mess with the compass. - Steel has very poor RF transparency, which would impact performance even with glass windows. - Steel is heavy. - Steel is far more difficult to machine: with Al you can easily (quickly, with little resistance) mill the curves and cavities that Apple likes for unibody design. Meanwhile steel chips, heats, and provides much resistance to a mill. It requires more finishing and incurs more tool wear.
fierarul 14y ago
> What material would you suggest they could use? Bamboo would drive Greenpeace mad.
- makmanalp 14y ago
  Actually, I think bamboo is supposed to be much more renewable than traditional wood, since it grows so darn fast.
bane 14y ago
Laminated wood like you find in high-end automobiles. Possibly with an inner plastic or aluminum reinforcement to give it strength. It would be both beautiful and in keeping with Apple's high-end appeal. Plus the Apple logo could be etched, burned or inlaid in. http://www.samuraijapan.co.jp/forauction/Alim/ebay/smartphone/GalaxyS2/s2_wood1.jpg http://www.samuraijapan.co.jp/forauction/Alim/ebay/smartphon...
- snogglethorpe 14y ago
  Wood would be very beautiful and nice to touch, but it seems difficult to make it thin enough without having horrible durability problems.

by pilif 14y ago

yread 14y ago

> so far, neither the front nor the back broke careful there, coworker told me exactly the same thing and the next day his glass cracked :)

kevhsu 14y ago

The casing of the Nexus One has none of those problems AFAIK. The macbook pros are quite durable to scratches and scuffs, so perhaps they could have used the same material/processes. Not sure about the iPhone 5 since I haven't handled one in person yet.

jrajav 14y ago
Anecdotal counterargument ho. I've owned a unibody MBP for only a year or so and it has several visible scratches, especially on the underside. It doesn't bother me, at least not as much as a case would, but based on my own experience I definitely wouldn't say "quite durable." I also wouldn't prefer any other material.
roc 14y ago
> "The macbook pros are quite durable to scratches and scuffs, so perhaps they could have used the same material/processes." They do. On the white/silver iphone5. And it, by all accounts, handles wear just like the unibody macbooks. The issue only relates to the black/graphite iPhone5, due the coating used to make it appear black/graphite. The iPhone had a metal back that exposed a black sub-surface with wear - and people complained. The iPhone 3G/3GS had a plastic back that scratched, chipped, cracked and was known to develop discolored stress marks - and people complained. The iPhone 4/4S had a glass back that chipped, scratched and shattered - and people complained. I'm not sure about the Nexus One, having never seen one. But I am fairly certain that no matter what Apple makes a phone with, they can not ship anything that's literally perfect. And they will ship millions, with the initial sales tilted toward obsessives and perfectionists. These people have always found things to complain about and they will always find things to complain about. Further, the press knows Apple articles are an eyeball gold mine, particularly Apple articles about a controversy, so they will always make as big a deal out of anything that they can. See also: the 'yellow' screen glue issues; 'antennagate'; the possibility that repeated application and removal of cases to an iPhone4/4S might cause cracks; the stress cracks on the 3G; wear on the silver face band around the 3G/3GS; wear on the original iPhone back; dead pixels on the 4; etc.
linhat 14y ago
Nexus One owner here. My device has a lot of scratches and scuffs, it has been magically lifting itself out of my pocket on a few occasions including riding a bike at full speed. Needless to say, when it hit the ground it not only totally disassembled itself, it also received a few more scratches here and there. My MacBook Pro is different by the way, no scratches after lots and lots of usage. The verdict: I couldn't care less. It's a phone and after putting the battery back in and the cover on, it never ceased to work, it didn't even change my user experience in any way (broken glass, buttons etc.) I would not buy a phone that requires me to put in in an ugly case, but I would also not care much about a few scratches here and there as long as the phone doesn't break. So if you buy a phone partially for it's supposedly amazing design and then hide it inside those ugly rubber casings or whine about small scratches, well, than you lost me along the way.

bryanlarsen 14y ago

"What material would you suggest they could use?" There are plenty of plastics out there that don't break or scratch easily. And when they do scratch, it's a solid color so the scratch isn't readily visible. Most other phone companies use one of those.

pilif 14y ago
Yes. They tried that with the iPhone 3G. People didn't like the cheap "plasticy" feeling.
- blub 14y ago
  Because it was a cheap, plasticy plastic :) The premium kind in the Lumia series beats any iPhone up to 4S. Haven't tried the 5 yet, though I think metal is a particularly poor choice.

checker 14y ago

Did you read the article? Extremetech seems to believe that it's a flaw in the adonizing process: "Schiller must be referring to the fact that anodization simply isn’t strong enough to withstand everyday use. We know this isn’t the case, though, as anodized aluminium is very well understood and used in a massive gamut of applications — including military, where the anodized coating certainly doesn’t just scratch off." Also, from another extremetech article it links to: "Usually another protective layer of sealant or lacquer is added to make the it more wear-resistant — but sadly it seems like the iPhone 5 lacks that extra protection." The iPhone 5's adonization seems to be more fragile than other adonized devices. <strikethrough>They've been coloring the iPods for years and nobody has complained this much.</strikethrough>

nsxwolf 14y ago
The second generation anodized iPod nano scratched if you looked at it funny.
- checker 14y ago
  You are correct: http://news.cnet.com/8301-13579_3-10149328-37.html http://news.cnet.com/8301-13579_3-10149328-37.html
vonmoltke 14y ago
From personal experience, I have had an anodized aluminum computer case for over ten years, and in all my accessing and bumping into that case I have yet to scratch the coating.

ja27 14y ago

"So what's left? What material would you suggest they could use?" Type III Hard Anodized Aluminum, not the thinner, weaker Type II they apparently used. Also, a little more texture on the back would have disguised scratches better. I carried this HA III flashlight on my keychain for years with surprising little wear, given that it's constantly scraping against keys, key rings, and other metal tools. http://www.arcflashlight.com/arc-aaa.shtml http://www.arcflashlight.com/arc-aaa.shtml

blub 14y ago

Actually Apple are pretty bad at picking phone materials period. Glass is probably the poorest material possible for the obvious reason. The fact that yours didn't yet break is irrelevant. Aluminum is yet another bad choice. It is cold to the touch during winter, it's slippery and if you're wearing a ring it will scratch the back. Nokia made the same mistake with the N8 and the E7. The answer is high quality plastic, like on the N9 or Lumia 800/900/920. This feels excellent in the hand and is also very tough. Another option might be rubberized plastic as seen on some Android models.

arn 14y ago
But making it out of plastic would lose some of the thinness/strength benefits from a unibody aluminum enclosure. Apple uses a single block of aluminum: http://thetechblock.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/iphone5_toolpath.jpeg http://thetechblock.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/iphone5_t...
- blub 14y ago
  Could be. The Nokias I mentioned use one block of plastic (or polycarbonate as they call it), but they are indeed thicker. As an anecdote my laptop (MBA) and phone (N8) have a full aluminum body. I prefer the high quality plastic of the Thinkpad & N9 though, it's "friendlier" to the touch than the cold slippery metal.
vonmoltke 14y ago
> Actually Apple are pretty bad at picking phone materials period. Which is funny, because they filed a patent[1] over two years ago for a process to make scratch-resistant stainless steel. [1] http://www.geek.com/articles/apple/apple-to-patent-process-for-scratch-resistant-stainless-steel-2010111/ http://www.geek.com/articles/apple/apple-to-patent-process-f...
- spartango 14y ago
  Stainless steel is a pretty interesting material, but probably not a good choice for this design. A new variant of stainless probably makes it an even poorer choice (because full characterization is a prerequisite): - Some variants of stainless steel are ferromagnetic, which would mess with the compass. - Steel has very poor RF transparency, which would impact performance even with glass windows. - Steel is heavy. - Steel is far more difficult to machine: with Al you can easily (quickly, with little resistance) mill the curves and cavities that Apple likes for unibody design. Meanwhile steel chips, heats, and provides much resistance to a mill. It requires more finishing and incurs more tool wear.

fierarul 14y ago

> What material would you suggest they could use? Bamboo would drive Greenpeace mad.

makmanalp 14y ago
Actually, I think bamboo is supposed to be much more renewable than traditional wood, since it grows so darn fast.

bane 14y ago

Laminated wood like you find in high-end automobiles. Possibly with an inner plastic or aluminum reinforcement to give it strength. It would be both beautiful and in keeping with Apple's high-end appeal. Plus the Apple logo could be etched, burned or inlaid in. http://www.samuraijapan.co.jp/forauction/Alim/ebay/smartphone/GalaxyS2/s2_wood1.jpg http://www.samuraijapan.co.jp/forauction/Alim/ebay/smartphon...

snogglethorpe 14y ago
Wood would be very beautiful and nice to touch, but it seems difficult to make it thin enough without having horrible durability problems.