5 ms·

The generous part of me says this is an example of "you become what you hate". The ungenerous part of me says that all their talk about freedom, liberty, state'

The generous part of me says this is an example of "you become what you hate". The ungenerous part of me says that all their talk about freedom, liberty, state's rights, etc., has always been a lie.

estearum 1y ago
As someone who grew up in a deep red area full of people with Gadsden flags treading on other people: 100% was always a lie.
dragonwriter 1y ago
“States rights” as a slogan has a very clear history of that; for that one, there isn’t really doubt to give it the benefit of. The others may not be much better, but aren’t quite as unmistakably clear.
mindslight 1y ago
As a libertarian, I had given Republicans the benefit of the doubt figuring they earnestly wanted freedom, but were just terrible at understanding the details of how their freedom gets taken away. But I still had figured that conservatism actually meant something - trusting institutions / "the system", believing America is a force for good in the world, slow measured change, etc. But the point we've arrived at, with so many of them complicit in these wanton attacks on our freedoms and our society, it's hard to see that there are any sort of ideals or values behind their party. People are going about their days, getting accosted by unaccountable masked gangs, having their face scanned, then getting sent to a concentration camp when some buggy app claims they aren't a citizen? How can one possibly look at that and think anything but "this could easily happen to me or my family" ? The only answer I've been able to come up with is that it is straight up racism. They believe they could never possibly be on the pointy end of this fascist dystopia, because they look "American" (ie white), and so would never possibly be scanned in the first place? I earnestly hate this "racism everywhere" chant the Democratic party has fallen into for the past decade. But I'm having a real hard time finding any other explanation, so I'm reluctantly coming around to that. Someone please convince me I am wrong.
- _yb2s 1y ago
  I'm coming from the same basic perspective as you describe, and always tried hard to see people in the best light and sympathize with their concerns, but am no longer finding that possible in this situation, and it is disheartening. The only explanation for the core MAGA supporters that I can come up with is that it is a sort of loose coalition of people that feel disaffected and judged by society for various reasons and want acceptance - and vengeance. It includes many people that are, e.g. sociopaths and racists, and want someone to tell them that being like that isn't bad, it's actually "protecting American from inferior people" or some such thing. There is just no way that people don't realize that Trump is a malignant narcissist that lies every time he speaks, and tries to sadistically harm anyone that doesn't support him. The only explanation is that people don't like him despite that, but because of it- him being so awful, and proudly like that with no hint of remorse, absolves them of the lifelong guilt and fear that they might be bad people also, and instead frees them to also be proudly like that themselves. Recently I've been reading a book about the history of the Jim Crow era in the south, and the extremely widespread brutal terrorism and mass murder, and I can't really reach any other conclusion than that those people just laid low for a while while they regrouped and strategized, but they're just as prevalent, violent, and racist now as they ever were, and they're done hiding. They see the Confederate/Nazi/Fascist dream of a totalitarian white ethnostate in their grasp, and they are ready to make it happen - they aren't ashamed for wanting that, and they aren't afraid anymore. I get that this is a really dark view of current events, and I really hope it is not true, but at this point, I think it is delusional to pretend that it's anything but the most likely explanation and prepare accordingly.
  - vkou 1y ago
    It turns out that the 'basket of deplorables' was, in fact, calling a spade a spade.
    - mindslight 1y ago
      I'm not really a fan of Hillary Clinton and I thought that comment was a bit ham-fisted at the time, but as it turns out she's been thoroughly vindicated.
seg_lol 1y ago
You should go to rumble and watch the Charlie Kirk show. It is a huge stream of jingoistic fallacies, fear and hate mongering and a bald faced usurpation of what it means to be an American. Anyone they that disagrees with them is an unpatriotic unamerican leftist that hates all that is good in the world. Their words.

The generous part of me says this is an example of "you become what you hate". The ungenerous part of me says that all their talk about freedom, liberty, state's rights, etc., has always been a lie.

estearum 1y ago

As someone who grew up in a deep red area full of people with Gadsden flags treading on other people: 100% was always a lie.

dragonwriter 1y ago

“States rights” as a slogan has a very clear history of that; for that one, there isn’t really doubt to give it the benefit of. The others may not be much better, but aren’t quite as unmistakably clear.

mindslight 1y ago

As a libertarian, I had given Republicans the benefit of the doubt figuring they earnestly wanted freedom, but were just terrible at understanding the details of how their freedom gets taken away. But I still had figured that conservatism actually meant something - trusting institutions / "the system", believing America is a force for good in the world, slow measured change, etc. But the point we've arrived at, with so many of them complicit in these wanton attacks on our freedoms and our society, it's hard to see that there are any sort of ideals or values behind their party. People are going about their days, getting accosted by unaccountable masked gangs, having their face scanned, then getting sent to a concentration camp when some buggy app claims they aren't a citizen? How can one possibly look at that and think anything but "this could easily happen to me or my family" ? The only answer I've been able to come up with is that it is straight up racism. They believe they could never possibly be on the pointy end of this fascist dystopia, because they look "American" (ie white), and so would never possibly be scanned in the first place? I earnestly hate this "racism everywhere" chant the Democratic party has fallen into for the past decade. But I'm having a real hard time finding any other explanation, so I'm reluctantly coming around to that. Someone please convince me I am wrong.

_yb2s 1y ago
I'm coming from the same basic perspective as you describe, and always tried hard to see people in the best light and sympathize with their concerns, but am no longer finding that possible in this situation, and it is disheartening. The only explanation for the core MAGA supporters that I can come up with is that it is a sort of loose coalition of people that feel disaffected and judged by society for various reasons and want acceptance - and vengeance. It includes many people that are, e.g. sociopaths and racists, and want someone to tell them that being like that isn't bad, it's actually "protecting American from inferior people" or some such thing. There is just no way that people don't realize that Trump is a malignant narcissist that lies every time he speaks, and tries to sadistically harm anyone that doesn't support him. The only explanation is that people don't like him despite that, but because of it- him being so awful, and proudly like that with no hint of remorse, absolves them of the lifelong guilt and fear that they might be bad people also, and instead frees them to also be proudly like that themselves. Recently I've been reading a book about the history of the Jim Crow era in the south, and the extremely widespread brutal terrorism and mass murder, and I can't really reach any other conclusion than that those people just laid low for a while while they regrouped and strategized, but they're just as prevalent, violent, and racist now as they ever were, and they're done hiding. They see the Confederate/Nazi/Fascist dream of a totalitarian white ethnostate in their grasp, and they are ready to make it happen - they aren't ashamed for wanting that, and they aren't afraid anymore. I get that this is a really dark view of current events, and I really hope it is not true, but at this point, I think it is delusional to pretend that it's anything but the most likely explanation and prepare accordingly.
- vkou 1y ago
  It turns out that the 'basket of deplorables' was, in fact, calling a spade a spade.
  - mindslight 1y ago
    I'm not really a fan of Hillary Clinton and I thought that comment was a bit ham-fisted at the time, but as it turns out she's been thoroughly vindicated.

seg_lol 1y ago

You should go to rumble and watch the Charlie Kirk show. It is a huge stream of jingoistic fallacies, fear and hate mongering and a bald faced usurpation of what it means to be an American. Anyone they that disagrees with them is an unpatriotic unamerican leftist that hates all that is good in the world. Their words.