5 ms·

It is absolutely insane that the party who tried on the Libertarian mask less than 20 years ago and rode high on a wave of "don't tread on me" individual libert

by tootie 1y ago

It is absolutely insane that the party who tried on the Libertarian mask less than 20 years ago and rode high on a wave of "don't tread on me" individual liberty is now suddenly ok with masked thugs scanning everyone's faces for their master database of enemies of the state.

willis936 1y ago
It makes more sense when you frame it as "party of shameless self interest and racial stratification acts in shameless self interest while racially stratifying". You can draw a straight line back to even before the US civil war of the anti-federalists using their station to undermine the republic and liberties it stands for.
- pohl 1y ago
  Nicely said. That’s right up there with Wilhoit’s Law for being a clarifying perspective.
- parineum 1y ago
  Frankly, I don't think this is a party thing. Our elected officials are mostly party line. There are a few who have actual ideals that they adhere to but the rest of them are weather vanes. You basically have to be a party loyalist to get campaign funds so, unless you can self fund, you gotta toe the line.
  - willis936 1y ago
    Party probably wasn't the best word to use there. I didn't mean it as in the discrete political entity, but more of the amorphous group. The color of the hat doesn't matter as much as what they believe in.
    - parineum 1y ago
      > The color of the hat doesn't matter as much as what they believe in. I agree but the argument I'm making is that the "what they believe in" part is usually, "I should be re-elected". There are very few elected officials that I believe would choose to not be re-elected rather than change their touted core beliefs.
JohnFen 1y ago
The generous part of me says this is an example of "you become what you hate". The ungenerous part of me says that all their talk about freedom, liberty, state's rights, etc., has always been a lie.
- estearum 1y ago
  As someone who grew up in a deep red area full of people with Gadsden flags treading on other people: 100% was always a lie.
- dragonwriter 1y ago
  “States rights” as a slogan has a very clear history of that; for that one, there isn’t really doubt to give it the benefit of. The others may not be much better, but aren’t quite as unmistakably clear.
- mindslight 1y ago
  As a libertarian, I had given Republicans the benefit of the doubt figuring they earnestly wanted freedom, but were just terrible at understanding the details of how their freedom gets taken away. But I still had figured that conservatism actually meant something - trusting institutions / "the system", believing America is a force for good in the world, slow measured change, etc. But the point we've arrived at, with so many of them complicit in these wanton attacks on our freedoms and our society, it's hard to see that there are any sort of ideals or values behind their party. People are going about their days, getting accosted by unaccountable masked gangs, having their face scanned, then getting sent to a concentration camp when some buggy app claims they aren't a citizen? How can one possibly look at that and think anything but "this could easily happen to me or my family" ? The only answer I've been able to come up with is that it is straight up racism. They believe they could never possibly be on the pointy end of this fascist dystopia, because they look "American" (ie white), and so would never possibly be scanned in the first place? I earnestly hate this "racism everywhere" chant the Democratic party has fallen into for the past decade. But I'm having a real hard time finding any other explanation, so I'm reluctantly coming around to that. Someone please convince me I am wrong.
  - 1y ago
miltonlost 1y ago
It's not insane when you recognize the animus behind both is white nationalism and racism. Tea Party was a response to Obama being President, not so much the taxes as they claim.
worik 1y ago
> suddenly ok with masked thugs scanning everyone's faces The point is it is brown people's faces. They have always been OK with that
- acdha 1y ago
  You’re right in general but it has been striking to see how much the current Republican response has flipped from what we heard for years after the Elian Gonzalez case, where Giuliani described the BORTAC agents as “storm troopers” and the outage is credited with flipping Florida for Bush in 2000. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Jim_Goldman_and_Elian_Gonzalez.jpg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Jim_Goldman_and_Elian_Gon...
cosmicgadget 1y ago
You can expect the party to vote along party lines. The real funny one here is all the Rogan libertarians who made a conscious choice to vote for this.
quickthrowman 1y ago
The GOP uses fear and hate to spread their message and scare people into voting for them. The flavor they use changes, but the fear and hate are always there.
ModernMech 1y ago
The only difference between today and 20 years ago is the war machine is being directed against Americans rather than foreigners. 20 years ago people called GWB a fascist for his actions in Iraq, and Americans said it was hyperbole and everything that was happening was patriotic. 20 years later, it's the same shit, different country, and white people are the victims, so it's easier for folx to recognize this as fascism.

by tootie 1y ago

willis936 1y ago

It makes more sense when you frame it as "party of shameless self interest and racial stratification acts in shameless self interest while racially stratifying". You can draw a straight line back to even before the US civil war of the anti-federalists using their station to undermine the republic and liberties it stands for.

pohl 1y ago
Nicely said. That’s right up there with Wilhoit’s Law for being a clarifying perspective.
parineum 1y ago
Frankly, I don't think this is a party thing. Our elected officials are mostly party line. There are a few who have actual ideals that they adhere to but the rest of them are weather vanes. You basically have to be a party loyalist to get campaign funds so, unless you can self fund, you gotta toe the line.
- willis936 1y ago
  Party probably wasn't the best word to use there. I didn't mean it as in the discrete political entity, but more of the amorphous group. The color of the hat doesn't matter as much as what they believe in.
  - parineum 1y ago
    > The color of the hat doesn't matter as much as what they believe in. I agree but the argument I'm making is that the "what they believe in" part is usually, "I should be re-elected". There are very few elected officials that I believe would choose to not be re-elected rather than change their touted core beliefs.

JohnFen 1y ago

The generous part of me says this is an example of "you become what you hate". The ungenerous part of me says that all their talk about freedom, liberty, state's rights, etc., has always been a lie.

estearum 1y ago
As someone who grew up in a deep red area full of people with Gadsden flags treading on other people: 100% was always a lie.
dragonwriter 1y ago
“States rights” as a slogan has a very clear history of that; for that one, there isn’t really doubt to give it the benefit of. The others may not be much better, but aren’t quite as unmistakably clear.
mindslight 1y ago
As a libertarian, I had given Republicans the benefit of the doubt figuring they earnestly wanted freedom, but were just terrible at understanding the details of how their freedom gets taken away. But I still had figured that conservatism actually meant something - trusting institutions / "the system", believing America is a force for good in the world, slow measured change, etc. But the point we've arrived at, with so many of them complicit in these wanton attacks on our freedoms and our society, it's hard to see that there are any sort of ideals or values behind their party. People are going about their days, getting accosted by unaccountable masked gangs, having their face scanned, then getting sent to a concentration camp when some buggy app claims they aren't a citizen? How can one possibly look at that and think anything but "this could easily happen to me or my family" ? The only answer I've been able to come up with is that it is straight up racism. They believe they could never possibly be on the pointy end of this fascist dystopia, because they look "American" (ie white), and so would never possibly be scanned in the first place? I earnestly hate this "racism everywhere" chant the Democratic party has fallen into for the past decade. But I'm having a real hard time finding any other explanation, so I'm reluctantly coming around to that. Someone please convince me I am wrong.
- 1y ago

miltonlost 1y ago

It's not insane when you recognize the animus behind both is white nationalism and racism. Tea Party was a response to Obama being President, not so much the taxes as they claim.

worik 1y ago

> suddenly ok with masked thugs scanning everyone's faces The point is it is brown people's faces. They have always been OK with that

acdha 1y ago
You’re right in general but it has been striking to see how much the current Republican response has flipped from what we heard for years after the Elian Gonzalez case, where Giuliani described the BORTAC agents as “storm troopers” and the outage is credited with flipping Florida for Bush in 2000. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Jim_Goldman_and_Elian_Gonzalez.jpg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Jim_Goldman_and_Elian_Gon...

cosmicgadget 1y ago

You can expect the party to vote along party lines. The real funny one here is all the Rogan libertarians who made a conscious choice to vote for this.

quickthrowman 1y ago

The GOP uses fear and hate to spread their message and scare people into voting for them. The flavor they use changes, but the fear and hate are always there.

ModernMech 1y ago

The only difference between today and 20 years ago is the war machine is being directed against Americans rather than foreigners. 20 years ago people called GWB a fascist for his actions in Iraq, and Americans said it was hyperbole and everything that was happening was patriotic. 20 years later, it's the same shit, different country, and white people are the victims, so it's easier for folx to recognize this as fascism.