4 ms·

I wonder how soon till the automated license plate reader cameras everywhere start doing this.

by superkuh 1y ago

SirFatty 1y ago
I'm sure it's already happening!
pyk 1y ago
This and ezpass readers are already everywhere in cities (even outside toll points) to track movement.
01HNNWZ0MV43FF 1y ago
For today's ten thousand https://deflock.me https://deflock.me
supportengineer 1y ago
"You're being pulled over because this licence plate is not registered with a valid REAL ID"
- JohnMakin 1y ago
  If only it was this bad. REAL ID only proves you were at one point allowed to be here. It doesn't prove you're allowed to be here right now (which can change arbitrarily and at any time apparently)
  - JuniperMesos 1y ago
    The state should avoid giving a REAL ID to anyine who isn't at least a permanent resident of the US (and the distinction between cirizen and non-citizen IDs should be very obvious). A lot of illegal immigrants are people who legally entered the US on a temporary visa, and overstayed; and it would be good if basically every American bureaucracy was quickly, consistently, and legibly checking for that status. Instead, the situation we have now is that many bureaucracies deliberately avoid making any citizenship or legal residency distinction on official documents because the polticians who determine the rules for those bureaucracies think immigration enforcement is immoral and want to make it easier for illegal immigrants to access American bureaucracies and harder for other bureaucracies controlled by less immigration-friendly polticians to detect illegal immigrants.
    - JohnMakin 1y ago
      I'm not sure what documents you think entail getting a REAL ID but they are typically proof of permanent residence, such as US passport, birth certificate, or green card. Its requirements are actually stricter than what entails getting a passport, because you also have to prove you actually live in the state you're applying in. As for the rest of your post, I don't really know what you're babbling about has to do with what I wrote.
      - JuniperMesos 1y ago
        I checked the State of California website for REAL ID eligibility before I wrote my above comment, and it confirms that people with temporary legal immigration status are eligible for REAL ID cards, specifically mentioning DACA recipients as an example of a category of people who are eligible. This is exactly the sort of thing I think should not be allowed by the federal framework governing REAL IDs, non-permanent residents should not be able to get a REAL ID at all under any circumstances and the one for permanent residents should look obviously distinct from those for citizens. The point of this is to make it extremely obvious that a REAL ID holder is definitely a legal citizen, and therefore make it actually useful for proving citizenship or legal permanent residency.
        AceyMan 1y ago
        You're effectively saying non-permanent residents should be prohibited from using commercial flight to move around the giant country that is the US. I'm not sure if that's your intention.
        JuniperMesos 1y ago
        I've personally flown domestic commercial flights in at least two foreign countries (China and Mexico), that I have no legal permanent residency in, using the same American passport I used as ID to enter these countries to begin with; and there was no issue. I don't even know what the Chinese or Mexican equivalent of a REAL ID might be like. I'm sure the US could create a similar legal ID framework for domestic air travel.
keeda 1y ago
My understanding is that the only thing keeping this from happening is that the data is far more valuable for traffic monitoring than law enforcement. As a trivial example, these cameras can already determine is a vehicle is speeding based on its number plate sightings between any two cameras. They can hence start issuing tickets, no radar or police needed. However, they've not gone down this path because they are (rightfully) concerned that there would be an instantaneous and severe backlash that could lead to those cameras being banned entirely, which would cripple traffic control.
- vinyl7 1y ago
  Don't we have the right to "face your accuser" ie getting automatic tickets from the government is illegal because you don't have an accuser.
  - krapp 1y ago
    The accuser is the state issuing the ticket. And you do have the right to contest the ticket in court, before a judge. Unless you have the free time, and some evidence that doesn't involve the fringe around the courtroom's flag, you're probably better off just paying the ticket.
  - quickthrowman 1y ago
    You do in some states, like Minnesota. Red light and speed cameras are illegal here. You do not in other states, like Virginia, which has signs informing you that they have planes that issue tickets (???)
- quantumcotton 1y ago
  Lol I think San Francisco gave out 55k tickets in the last 45 days with these cameras. Don't worry, coming to a highway near you soon!

I wonder how soon till the automated license plate reader cameras everywhere start doing this.

SirFatty 1y ago

I'm sure it's already happening!

pyk 1y ago

This and ezpass readers are already everywhere in cities (even outside toll points) to track movement.

01HNNWZ0MV43FF 1y ago

For today's ten thousand https://deflock.me https://deflock.me

supportengineer 1y ago

"You're being pulled over because this licence plate is not registered with a valid REAL ID"

JohnMakin 1y ago
If only it was this bad. REAL ID only proves you were at one point allowed to be here. It doesn't prove you're allowed to be here right now (which can change arbitrarily and at any time apparently)
- JuniperMesos 1y ago
  The state should avoid giving a REAL ID to anyine who isn't at least a permanent resident of the US (and the distinction between cirizen and non-citizen IDs should be very obvious). A lot of illegal immigrants are people who legally entered the US on a temporary visa, and overstayed; and it would be good if basically every American bureaucracy was quickly, consistently, and legibly checking for that status. Instead, the situation we have now is that many bureaucracies deliberately avoid making any citizenship or legal residency distinction on official documents because the polticians who determine the rules for those bureaucracies think immigration enforcement is immoral and want to make it easier for illegal immigrants to access American bureaucracies and harder for other bureaucracies controlled by less immigration-friendly polticians to detect illegal immigrants.
  - JohnMakin 1y ago
    I'm not sure what documents you think entail getting a REAL ID but they are typically proof of permanent residence, such as US passport, birth certificate, or green card. Its requirements are actually stricter than what entails getting a passport, because you also have to prove you actually live in the state you're applying in. As for the rest of your post, I don't really know what you're babbling about has to do with what I wrote.
    - JuniperMesos 1y ago
      I checked the State of California website for REAL ID eligibility before I wrote my above comment, and it confirms that people with temporary legal immigration status are eligible for REAL ID cards, specifically mentioning DACA recipients as an example of a category of people who are eligible. This is exactly the sort of thing I think should not be allowed by the federal framework governing REAL IDs, non-permanent residents should not be able to get a REAL ID at all under any circumstances and the one for permanent residents should look obviously distinct from those for citizens. The point of this is to make it extremely obvious that a REAL ID holder is definitely a legal citizen, and therefore make it actually useful for proving citizenship or legal permanent residency.
      - AceyMan 1y ago
        You're effectively saying non-permanent residents should be prohibited from using commercial flight to move around the giant country that is the US. I'm not sure if that's your intention.
        JuniperMesos 1y ago
        I've personally flown domestic commercial flights in at least two foreign countries (China and Mexico), that I have no legal permanent residency in, using the same American passport I used as ID to enter these countries to begin with; and there was no issue. I don't even know what the Chinese or Mexican equivalent of a REAL ID might be like. I'm sure the US could create a similar legal ID framework for domestic air travel.

keeda 1y ago

My understanding is that the only thing keeping this from happening is that the data is far more valuable for traffic monitoring than law enforcement. As a trivial example, these cameras can already determine is a vehicle is speeding based on its number plate sightings between any two cameras. They can hence start issuing tickets, no radar or police needed. However, they've not gone down this path because they are (rightfully) concerned that there would be an instantaneous and severe backlash that could lead to those cameras being banned entirely, which would cripple traffic control.

vinyl7 1y ago
Don't we have the right to "face your accuser" ie getting automatic tickets from the government is illegal because you don't have an accuser.
- krapp 1y ago
  The accuser is the state issuing the ticket. And you do have the right to contest the ticket in court, before a judge. Unless you have the free time, and some evidence that doesn't involve the fringe around the courtroom's flag, you're probably better off just paying the ticket.
- quickthrowman 1y ago
  You do in some states, like Minnesota. Red light and speed cameras are illegal here. You do not in other states, like Virginia, which has signs informing you that they have planes that issue tickets (???)
quantumcotton 1y ago
Lol I think San Francisco gave out 55k tickets in the last 45 days with these cameras. Don't worry, coming to a highway near you soon!