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Looks like the comment was updated? I see a different one now. To reply to > Both of these have been in place for a very long time. > Ever use a debit card t

Looks like the comment was updated? I see a different one now. To reply to > Both of these have been in place for a very long time. > Ever use a debit card to buy something? No they haven't. Debit card balance isn't a deposit at the central bank - it's commercial bank money (i.e. a liability of the commercial bank, not the central bank). Retail CBDC is digital central bank money held by the public (retail). So it would be the public holding a central bank liability

jqpabc123 11mo ago
So it would be the public holding a central bank liability The public and central banks ultimately hold all the liability anyway. As far as settlements are concerned, commercial banks are just intermediaries that could easily be replaced by automation.
- iluxonchik 11mo ago
  > The public and central banks ultimately hold all the liability anyway All the liability on what? Central bank liability is both a legal, and a financial concept Commercial banks can be easily replaced? How so?
  - toomuchtodo 11mo ago
    > Commercial banks can be easily replaced? How so? End user deposit accounts held at the central bank [1] and narrow banking [2]. The Fed does not like these ideas though [3] [4], which is why their policy is designed to support commercial banks. The funny part is the Tether become the narrow bank outside of the traditional financial system; they hold mostly only US treasuries, at nation state scale [5]. Does it matter they don't have a master account at the Fed? I argue no, considering treasuries are backed by the full faith and credit of the US government, and that debt is backstopped by the Fed. Consumer deposits are unnecessary for lending; credit can be issued by entities who issue debt into the bond market for capital. [1] https://rooseveltinstitute.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/08/GDI_Central-Banking-For-All_201806.pdf https://rooseveltinstitute.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/08/GD... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narrow_banking https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narrow_banking [3] https://www.chicagobooth.edu/review/safest-bank-fed-wont-sanction https://www.chicagobooth.edu/review/safest-bank-fed-wont-san... [4] https://southerncalifornialawreview.com/2024/03/11/squeezed-the-narrow-bank-the-federal-reserve-and-the-future-of-full-reserve-banking/ https://southerncalifornialawreview.com/2024/03/11/squeezed-... [5] Tether is now the 17th largest holder of US debt - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45747578 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45747578 - October 2025 (jqpabc123 mentions in a sibling comment FedNow instant rails, which makes moving value trivial for a few pennies per transaction, up to $10M at a time)
    - jqpabc123 11mo ago
      The Fed does not like these ideas though The Fed doesn't like these ideas because commercial banks don't like these ideas. They're both part of the same club that they prefer to perpetuate.
      - toomuchtodo 11mo ago
        I could not agree more.
    - iluxonchik 11mo ago
      How would you suggesting restructuring the legal system so that currency becomes fully a central bank liability? And how would such a restructuring help to improve the current model? And very importantly - what is the practical next step? You can't make all of the U.S. dollar a direct liability of the central bank overnight without collapsing the global financial and geopolitical structure?
  - jqpabc123 11mo ago
    All the liability on what? Fraud. Banking liability rolls uphill. When a commercial bank fails, who picks up the pieces? Commercial banks can be easily replaced? How so? https://www.frbservices.org/financial-services/fednow https://www.frbservices.org/financial-services/fednow For transaction settlement, commercial banks are really just intermediaries. They swap numbers all day and at the end of the day, they tell the Fed's computers how to settle things among banks. FedNow let's the Fed's computer settle things directly on the fly, 24/7/365. It's really a CBDC implementation that cuts commercial banks into the mix mainly for the sake of tradition.
    - iluxonchik 11mo ago
      FedNow is a real-time payment system for interbank transfers - it doesn't replace commercial banks. Commercial banks are credit, lending, deposit-taking and risk management institutions. FedNow focuses on settlement. Replacing commercial banks would require public access to central bank accounts, which isn't allowed under virtually all jurisdictions. Regarding fraud - automation won't remove fraud. Banks themselves heavily rely on automation. Regarding bank failure handling - same question as above
      - toomuchtodo 11mo ago
        If I can make instant payments from say, a digital wallet (TransferWise, for example) using instant payment rails, why do I need a bank? If I need credit, but can get that credit from a non bank, why do I need a bank? Stablecoins enable this without central bank and commercial bank infrastructure permissioning (the biggest US banks own Early Warning Systems [Zelle] and The Clearing House [RTP]; the Federal Reserve was instructed by Congress to build FedNow so these largest banks could not block smaller banks from financial infra access). Instant payment rails, value backed by sovereign debt, sovereign debt backed by central banks. Is your argument that we cannot live without fractional reserve lending enabled by commercial banks? Because private credit and ABS based credit is an example to the contrary. Consumer or commercial deposits are unnecessary to extend credit. Fraud risk is straightforward to manage, using either in house or vendor technologies, within the scope of deposit and banking product fraud detection and mitigation. Matt Levine: Stablecoins Make Banking Narrower - https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/newsletters/2025-10-02/stablecoins-make-banking-narrower https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/newsletters/2025-10-02/sta... | https://archive.today/9jJmE https://archive.today/9jJmE - October 2nd, 2025 Private Credit Wants to Be the Bank - https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2024-12-19/private-credit-wants-to-be-the-bank https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2024-12-19/privat... | https://archive.today/MO2kf https://archive.today/MO2kf - December 19th, 2024

jqpabc123 11mo ago

So it would be the public holding a central bank liability The public and central banks ultimately hold all the liability anyway. As far as settlements are concerned, commercial banks are just intermediaries that could easily be replaced by automation.

iluxonchik 11mo ago
> The public and central banks ultimately hold all the liability anyway All the liability on what? Central bank liability is both a legal, and a financial concept Commercial banks can be easily replaced? How so?
- toomuchtodo 11mo ago
  > Commercial banks can be easily replaced? How so? End user deposit accounts held at the central bank [1] and narrow banking [2]. The Fed does not like these ideas though [3] [4], which is why their policy is designed to support commercial banks. The funny part is the Tether become the narrow bank outside of the traditional financial system; they hold mostly only US treasuries, at nation state scale [5]. Does it matter they don't have a master account at the Fed? I argue no, considering treasuries are backed by the full faith and credit of the US government, and that debt is backstopped by the Fed. Consumer deposits are unnecessary for lending; credit can be issued by entities who issue debt into the bond market for capital. [1] https://rooseveltinstitute.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/08/GDI_Central-Banking-For-All_201806.pdf https://rooseveltinstitute.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/08/GD... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narrow_banking https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narrow_banking [3] https://www.chicagobooth.edu/review/safest-bank-fed-wont-sanction https://www.chicagobooth.edu/review/safest-bank-fed-wont-san... [4] https://southerncalifornialawreview.com/2024/03/11/squeezed-the-narrow-bank-the-federal-reserve-and-the-future-of-full-reserve-banking/ https://southerncalifornialawreview.com/2024/03/11/squeezed-... [5] Tether is now the 17th largest holder of US debt - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45747578 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45747578 - October 2025 (jqpabc123 mentions in a sibling comment FedNow instant rails, which makes moving value trivial for a few pennies per transaction, up to $10M at a time)
  - jqpabc123 11mo ago
    The Fed does not like these ideas though The Fed doesn't like these ideas because commercial banks don't like these ideas. They're both part of the same club that they prefer to perpetuate.
    - toomuchtodo 11mo ago
      I could not agree more.
  - iluxonchik 11mo ago
    How would you suggesting restructuring the legal system so that currency becomes fully a central bank liability? And how would such a restructuring help to improve the current model? And very importantly - what is the practical next step? You can't make all of the U.S. dollar a direct liability of the central bank overnight without collapsing the global financial and geopolitical structure?
- jqpabc123 11mo ago
  All the liability on what? Fraud. Banking liability rolls uphill. When a commercial bank fails, who picks up the pieces? Commercial banks can be easily replaced? How so? https://www.frbservices.org/financial-services/fednow https://www.frbservices.org/financial-services/fednow For transaction settlement, commercial banks are really just intermediaries. They swap numbers all day and at the end of the day, they tell the Fed's computers how to settle things among banks. FedNow let's the Fed's computer settle things directly on the fly, 24/7/365. It's really a CBDC implementation that cuts commercial banks into the mix mainly for the sake of tradition.
  - iluxonchik 11mo ago
    FedNow is a real-time payment system for interbank transfers - it doesn't replace commercial banks. Commercial banks are credit, lending, deposit-taking and risk management institutions. FedNow focuses on settlement. Replacing commercial banks would require public access to central bank accounts, which isn't allowed under virtually all jurisdictions. Regarding fraud - automation won't remove fraud. Banks themselves heavily rely on automation. Regarding bank failure handling - same question as above
    - toomuchtodo 11mo ago
      If I can make instant payments from say, a digital wallet (TransferWise, for example) using instant payment rails, why do I need a bank? If I need credit, but can get that credit from a non bank, why do I need a bank? Stablecoins enable this without central bank and commercial bank infrastructure permissioning (the biggest US banks own Early Warning Systems [Zelle] and The Clearing House [RTP]; the Federal Reserve was instructed by Congress to build FedNow so these largest banks could not block smaller banks from financial infra access). Instant payment rails, value backed by sovereign debt, sovereign debt backed by central banks. Is your argument that we cannot live without fractional reserve lending enabled by commercial banks? Because private credit and ABS based credit is an example to the contrary. Consumer or commercial deposits are unnecessary to extend credit. Fraud risk is straightforward to manage, using either in house or vendor technologies, within the scope of deposit and banking product fraud detection and mitigation. Matt Levine: Stablecoins Make Banking Narrower - https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/newsletters/2025-10-02/stablecoins-make-banking-narrower https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/newsletters/2025-10-02/sta... | https://archive.today/9jJmE https://archive.today/9jJmE - October 2nd, 2025 Private Credit Wants to Be the Bank - https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2024-12-19/private-credit-wants-to-be-the-bank https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2024-12-19/privat... | https://archive.today/MO2kf https://archive.today/MO2kf - December 19th, 2024