3 ms·

The hope is lost for Android, there is no moving forward with google antagonizing its foss roots. Libre phone it is. We have to forcibly remove the bandage.

A4ET8a8uTh0_v2 1y ago
I wish you were wrong, but I don't disagree with assessment. I am on grapheneos ( edit: on pixel ) now, but even that should only be a pitstop now since google has decided to show its hand in such a nasty ( if not that unexpected ) manner.
- surajrmal 1y ago
  Everyone is quick to ascribe malice without understanding why changes are made. It's never done for the reasons you think. Without a formal relationship between Graphene and Pixel, things were operating out of luck. This is why the next target hardware is starting with a business relationship. Even desktop Linux is most successful when business relationship between a vendor and the distro maker. Everything else is ripe for random breakage in support.
  - A4ET8a8uTh0_v2 1y ago
    It is not quick. Whatever goodwill google had, it is gone based on their actions alone. And this is beside the point, because, I am not judging on what they intended to do, but what their actions, including after intense community backlash, were. In other words, their intent is irrelevant given the circumstances. Their actions, however, even without intended malice, will cause tremendous damage all around.
preisschild 1y ago
AOSP is open source so it could be forked.
- pjmlp 1y ago
  Except many key features are nowadays delivered via APEX modules, distributed via PlayStore. https://source.android.com/docs/core/ota/apex https://source.android.com/docs/core/ota/apex
  - preisschild 1y ago
    https://grapheneos.org/features#anti-persistence https://grapheneos.org/features#anti-persistence GrapheneOS has apex modules disabled and never had the need for that.
    - pjmlp 1y ago
      ART updates are distributed via APEX since Android 12. So is it stuck in Java 12?
      - surajrmal 1y ago
        I believe it's similar to kernel modules in that they can either be compiled into the kernel or distributed separately. Graphene probably just distributes it as part of the system images. This just means rollouts are coupled. Apex doesn't imply closed source, only that there is a stable surface that allows more modular updates.
        strcat 1y ago
        APEX modules have their changes released as part of AOSP quarterly and yearly releases. There were also monthly releases with the new features distributed in the monthly mainline updates until recently. GrapheneOS is entirely capable of signing APEX modules with cross-device keys and distributing updates in our App Store, but we have very frequent OS updates and little need for APEX modules. APEX modules require a reboot to kick in so we prefer doing everything via OS releases which already only have to ship changes due to delta (incremental) updates. APEX modules are only relevant to us through how they've made the code more modular and created API boundaries between modules which are stable within major releases. It creates a bit more work for us to maintain some of our changes since we need to change the defined APIs but beyond that it's largely the same as before.

A4ET8a8uTh0_v2 1y ago

I wish you were wrong, but I don't disagree with assessment. I am on grapheneos ( edit: on pixel ) now, but even that should only be a pitstop now since google has decided to show its hand in such a nasty ( if not that unexpected ) manner.

surajrmal 1y ago
Everyone is quick to ascribe malice without understanding why changes are made. It's never done for the reasons you think. Without a formal relationship between Graphene and Pixel, things were operating out of luck. This is why the next target hardware is starting with a business relationship. Even desktop Linux is most successful when business relationship between a vendor and the distro maker. Everything else is ripe for random breakage in support.
- A4ET8a8uTh0_v2 1y ago
  It is not quick. Whatever goodwill google had, it is gone based on their actions alone. And this is beside the point, because, I am not judging on what they intended to do, but what their actions, including after intense community backlash, were. In other words, their intent is irrelevant given the circumstances. Their actions, however, even without intended malice, will cause tremendous damage all around.

preisschild 1y ago

AOSP is open source so it could be forked.

pjmlp 1y ago
Except many key features are nowadays delivered via APEX modules, distributed via PlayStore. https://source.android.com/docs/core/ota/apex https://source.android.com/docs/core/ota/apex
- preisschild 1y ago
  https://grapheneos.org/features#anti-persistence https://grapheneos.org/features#anti-persistence GrapheneOS has apex modules disabled and never had the need for that.
  - pjmlp 1y ago
    ART updates are distributed via APEX since Android 12. So is it stuck in Java 12?
    - surajrmal 1y ago
      I believe it's similar to kernel modules in that they can either be compiled into the kernel or distributed separately. Graphene probably just distributes it as part of the system images. This just means rollouts are coupled. Apex doesn't imply closed source, only that there is a stable surface that allows more modular updates.
      - strcat 1y ago
        APEX modules have their changes released as part of AOSP quarterly and yearly releases. There were also monthly releases with the new features distributed in the monthly mainline updates until recently. GrapheneOS is entirely capable of signing APEX modules with cross-device keys and distributing updates in our App Store, but we have very frequent OS updates and little need for APEX modules. APEX modules require a reboot to kick in so we prefer doing everything via OS releases which already only have to ship changes due to delta (incremental) updates. APEX modules are only relevant to us through how they've made the code more modular and created API boundaries between modules which are stable within major releases. It creates a bit more work for us to maintain some of our changes since we need to change the defined APIs but beyond that it's largely the same as before.