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Is having a real robot creepy? I don't know. Is having a robot operated by a human creepy and scary? Absolutely yes. We've seen that people behave worse when y

by tolmasky 11mo ago

Is having a real robot creepy? I don't know. Is having a robot operated by a human creepy and scary? Absolutely yes. We've seen that people behave worse when you introduce indirection. People act worse on the internet. Soldiers have an easier time killing with drones than in person. The ethical issue is in both directions: its inhumane to the operator, but I also don't want to feel like a fake person on a video screen to them. This is then exacerbated when you realize that the people operating this machine are almost certainly not being paid well, creating obvious and legitimate negative incentives. Then you plop them into the households of people with the insane wealth required to afford this. You might think that I have just described the situation with maids (and to some extent, I agree! I have never really felt comfortable that dynamic either), but this is actually different, because you are adding in the indirection and making actions and interactions feel less "real" to both parties: the clients are likely to treat the robots worse than they would a human helper, and the operators may feel these rude clients they see on their monitors aren't as real as the people around them.

dyauspitr 11mo ago
Yep, we’re going to have robots molesting women and kids.
joseangel_sc 11mo ago
it’s even worse, with maids, given the socioeconomic dynamics, even if they are paid low, they will be paid “local-market-rates” where by definition they will have to earn enough to (maybe barely) live nearby the people paying them, teleoperated robots don’t have that incentive and can pay “international low” levels of compensation
- RealityVoid 11mo ago
  Right, but the low income countries could also frame it as a new way to earn a living. I think avoiding giving jobs to those countries gives them no help.
- kelvinjps10 11mo ago
  But then it can be more, so they can make more than a maid, for example in some countries call center jobs for bilinguals people make double the minimum wage of the local rate.
- District5524 11mo ago
  Plenty of opportunity to use forced labourers in a DIFFERENT country while complying with all the immigration laws possible, and also saving the owners from having to meet real poor people. (I hope this will not work well...)
RealityVoid 11mo ago
I think they intend this as a step for getting enough training data in order not to need a human in the loop. I have actually been following 1x and what was Halodi(they merged at some point) for a while and their intention is full autonomy. Besides having someone strange in your house, you also have the company probably recording stuff. Privacy wise... It's worse. But that makes me not as concerned with safety since it any misbehavior would quickly be detected.
- runako 11mo ago
  > since it any misbehavior would quickly be detected I can think of at least one very prominent company that is currently recording, at scale, its users in its quest for full autonomy. As best I can tell, that company simply deletes videos when they are inconvenient.
stuaxo 11mo ago
So its servants then. Even needing a clearer feels living unsustainably - its living in a house too big to maintain. And if the answer is that works takes up too much time, yes we work too many hours.
- wtcactus 11mo ago
  My work is much more valuable than moving a broom around and washing some dishes. Anyone has the basic skills to clean a house, very few people have the skills to do advanced maths or physics, or engineering or even some forms of Mechanical labor. The cleaning lady is not some rocket scientist, she is someone that has very low skills and therefore does low skilled labor: cleaning houses.
  - JetSpiegel 11mo ago
    If her job is so worthless, why not go without and accept the (by definition) small diminishing utility. This is false, having a clean house, clean dishes, cooked food is extremely valuable, but this is mot captured by money, because half of the population were basically indentured servants that were culturally expected to provide this work for free.
    - wtcactus 11mo ago
      It wasn't for free. It was their work. Which, on average and until very recently, was much, much safer, and easier to do than the work of the other half of the population that had to leave the house and seek work to get a pay and allow the that half to stay at home.
      - JetSpiegel 11mo ago
        > It wasn't for free Say whaat? The woman's father literally paid good money to have her taken away. Everyone but the woman saw cash changing hands, but she was legally barred from owning property. Freedom was for men.

dyauspitr 11mo ago

Yep, we’re going to have robots molesting women and kids.

joseangel_sc 11mo ago

it’s even worse, with maids, given the socioeconomic dynamics, even if they are paid low, they will be paid “local-market-rates” where by definition they will have to earn enough to (maybe barely) live nearby the people paying them, teleoperated robots don’t have that incentive and can pay “international low” levels of compensation

RealityVoid 11mo ago
Right, but the low income countries could also frame it as a new way to earn a living. I think avoiding giving jobs to those countries gives them no help.
kelvinjps10 11mo ago
But then it can be more, so they can make more than a maid, for example in some countries call center jobs for bilinguals people make double the minimum wage of the local rate.
District5524 11mo ago
Plenty of opportunity to use forced labourers in a DIFFERENT country while complying with all the immigration laws possible, and also saving the owners from having to meet real poor people. (I hope this will not work well...)

RealityVoid 11mo ago

I think they intend this as a step for getting enough training data in order not to need a human in the loop. I have actually been following 1x and what was Halodi(they merged at some point) for a while and their intention is full autonomy. Besides having someone strange in your house, you also have the company probably recording stuff. Privacy wise... It's worse. But that makes me not as concerned with safety since it any misbehavior would quickly be detected.

runako 11mo ago
> since it any misbehavior would quickly be detected I can think of at least one very prominent company that is currently recording, at scale, its users in its quest for full autonomy. As best I can tell, that company simply deletes videos when they are inconvenient.

stuaxo 11mo ago

So its servants then. Even needing a clearer feels living unsustainably - its living in a house too big to maintain. And if the answer is that works takes up too much time, yes we work too many hours.

wtcactus 11mo ago
My work is much more valuable than moving a broom around and washing some dishes. Anyone has the basic skills to clean a house, very few people have the skills to do advanced maths or physics, or engineering or even some forms of Mechanical labor. The cleaning lady is not some rocket scientist, she is someone that has very low skills and therefore does low skilled labor: cleaning houses.
- JetSpiegel 11mo ago
  If her job is so worthless, why not go without and accept the (by definition) small diminishing utility. This is false, having a clean house, clean dishes, cooked food is extremely valuable, but this is mot captured by money, because half of the population were basically indentured servants that were culturally expected to provide this work for free.
  - wtcactus 11mo ago
    It wasn't for free. It was their work. Which, on average and until very recently, was much, much safer, and easier to do than the work of the other half of the population that had to leave the house and seek work to get a pay and allow the that half to stay at home.
    - JetSpiegel 11mo ago
      > It wasn't for free Say whaat? The woman's father literally paid good money to have her taken away. Everyone but the woman saw cash changing hands, but she was legally barred from owning property. Freedom was for men.