5 ms·

M1 had performance/watt way ahead of x86. M5 has performance/watt below Panther Lake. Is that really what you want?

by bryanlarsen 1y ago

mcphage 1y ago
No, you're right, that's not—let me go buy a Panther Lake laptop right now. What site would you recommend?
- bryanlarsen 1y ago
  M5 and Panther Lake are both late 2025 releases. They're fair comparisons.
  - doomroot13 1y ago
    Panther Lake isn't appearing in any products until 2026.
    - deleted 1y ago
      [deleted]
    - hinkley 1y ago
      That’s partly the difference between making your own components and getting them from a vendor. Sure Intel can send select vendors prerelease prototypes but the feedback loop will never be as efficient as in house. But it’s like a margin call. Everything is great until it completely sucks. Of course a lot of that comes down to TSMC. So if Apple falls it’s likely others will too.
      - mdasen 1y ago
        I think it's the difference between having enough CPUs that you can launch a product and having enough CPUs that people start planning future products. Volume takes time. That's why we're seeing 2026. And before someone says "that just gives Apple an advantage because they're smaller," Apple is shipping a comparable volume of CPUs - and they're doing basically all their volume on the latest fabrication tech.
        deleted 1y ago
        [deleted]
  - tom_ 1y ago
    You're absolutely right. Where should we go to get a Panther Lake laptop?
    - mcphage 1y ago
      That’s exactly what I’m asking.
  - plorkyeran 1y ago
    One of them I can go to the store and buy right now. One I cannot. That is a very important difference.
  - mcphage 1y ago
    And we’re sure that when it shows up in products it’ll be as good as Intel says it is?
  - nl 1y ago
    Intel's CEO said Q1 2026 for market availability for Panther Lake. There are no benchmarked samples yet. I'd love Intel to do well with this, but Intel has disappointed before.
supportengineer 1y ago
I don't want Panther Lake, whatever that is. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FL7yD-0pqZg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FL7yD-0pqZg
- Spivak 1y ago
  This is just how Intel names their CPU generations. It's far more boring than you're imagining. It's presumably named after https://snohomishcountywa.gov/5383/Panther https://snohomishcountywa.gov/5383/Panther Comet Lake, Elkhart Lake, Cooper Lake, Rocket Lake, Adler Lake, Raptor Lake, Meteor Lake.
anon7000 1y ago
Yes, I really want an M5, a CPU I can buy today, more than Panther Lake, which isn’t on the market yet and hasn’t been reviewed by 3rd parties. I want a laptop that gives me amazing performance, thermals, build quality, and battery life. It’s gonna take a while to see what manufacturers will do with panther lake.
- ToucanLoucan 1y ago
  These arguments constantly devolve into "why would you want an APPLE product that's less good than $_new_shiny_PC_thing" and it's always currently available products being pitched against conceptual products in the heads of Intel's fanboys that may come to market in a year. It's a ridiculous comparison. I got an M3 Pro Macbook Pro on clearance recently for $1,600, 16 inch screen brighter than any PC laptop's I've ever seen, that's the fastest computer I have ever used, hands down and it's 2 generations out of date already. OR I can have a PC gaming laptop where the fit and finish isn't as nice, where the screen is blurrier, the battery life maxes out at 4 hours if I do absolutely nothing with it, and any time I do anything of remote consequence the fans kick up and make it sound like it's trying to take off. And that's without even taking into account the awful mess Windows is lately, especially around power management. It makes every laptop experience frustrating, with the same issues that were there when I was in fucking high school. Like if you just hate Mac, fine, obviously a Mac is a bad fit for you then and I wouldn't try and tell you otherwise. But I absolutely reserve the right to giggle when those same people are turning their logical brains into pretzels to justify hating a Mac when it has utterly left the PC behind in all things apart from gaming.
  - b_e_n_t_o_n 1y ago
    And even for gaming, depending on what you play it's perfectly serviceable.
  - hinkley 1y ago
    When the Thunderbolt Display came out I was in a raid group and I wanted a display with great refresh rate and low delay (melee character, don’t get stuck standing in the poo). So I researched and researched and the only monitor that had equivalent response times to that dumb Thunderbolt Display was only $60 cheaper, had a plastic shell and I’d have to fight UPS over getting it. Or I could drive across town and have a monitor today and pay $60 for the aluminum shell that hides dust better.
AndrewDucker 1y ago
Leaving aside the availability of various Intel processors, exactly what I want is for the various manufacturers to compete as hard as they possibly can. I want Intel to catch up this month. And then next month I want AMD to overtake them. And then ARM to make them all look slow. And then Apple to show them how it's done. The absolute last thing I'd want is for Apple to have special magic chips that nobody else even comes close to.
doomroot13 1y ago
I am excited about Panther Lake myself but where are you reading that it has higher performance/watt than M5? The chips aren't even out yet. All we have are Intel marketing materials with vague lines on charts. No one could have possibly done a performance/watt test on Panther Lake yet. I'm hoping they beat M5 but if I had to, I'd put my money on M5.
BirAdam 1y ago
From what I’ve read, single thread for panther lake is roughly the same as last gen. The gains are in efficiency, multi thread, and GPU. The most optimistic reading I’ve seen suggested 50% gains in GPU performance and in multithread. I’ll wait for independent testing before making any judgements, but Intel has a way to go to rebuild trust.
- tacticus 1y ago
  so slower compared to the 14th gens. Though it sounds like it won't be a 400W desktop part at least.
rsynnott 1y ago
... I mean, given Intel's history in this department, you'd probably want to wait until Panther Lake is available before getting too excited.

M1 had performance/watt way ahead of x86. M5 has performance/watt below Panther Lake. Is that really what you want?

mcphage 1y ago

No, you're right, that's not—let me go buy a Panther Lake laptop right now. What site would you recommend?

bryanlarsen 1y ago
M5 and Panther Lake are both late 2025 releases. They're fair comparisons.
- doomroot13 1y ago
  Panther Lake isn't appearing in any products until 2026.
  - deleted 1y ago
    [deleted]
  - hinkley 1y ago
    That’s partly the difference between making your own components and getting them from a vendor. Sure Intel can send select vendors prerelease prototypes but the feedback loop will never be as efficient as in house. But it’s like a margin call. Everything is great until it completely sucks. Of course a lot of that comes down to TSMC. So if Apple falls it’s likely others will too.
    - mdasen 1y ago
      I think it's the difference between having enough CPUs that you can launch a product and having enough CPUs that people start planning future products. Volume takes time. That's why we're seeing 2026. And before someone says "that just gives Apple an advantage because they're smaller," Apple is shipping a comparable volume of CPUs - and they're doing basically all their volume on the latest fabrication tech.
      - deleted 1y ago
        [deleted]
- tom_ 1y ago
  You're absolutely right. Where should we go to get a Panther Lake laptop?
  - mcphage 1y ago
    That’s exactly what I’m asking.
- plorkyeran 1y ago
  One of them I can go to the store and buy right now. One I cannot. That is a very important difference.
- mcphage 1y ago
  And we’re sure that when it shows up in products it’ll be as good as Intel says it is?
- nl 1y ago
  Intel's CEO said Q1 2026 for market availability for Panther Lake. There are no benchmarked samples yet. I'd love Intel to do well with this, but Intel has disappointed before.

supportengineer 1y ago

I don't want Panther Lake, whatever that is. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FL7yD-0pqZg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FL7yD-0pqZg

Spivak 1y ago
This is just how Intel names their CPU generations. It's far more boring than you're imagining. It's presumably named after https://snohomishcountywa.gov/5383/Panther https://snohomishcountywa.gov/5383/Panther Comet Lake, Elkhart Lake, Cooper Lake, Rocket Lake, Adler Lake, Raptor Lake, Meteor Lake.

anon7000 1y ago

Yes, I really want an M5, a CPU I can buy today, more than Panther Lake, which isn’t on the market yet and hasn’t been reviewed by 3rd parties. I want a laptop that gives me amazing performance, thermals, build quality, and battery life. It’s gonna take a while to see what manufacturers will do with panther lake.

ToucanLoucan 1y ago
These arguments constantly devolve into "why would you want an APPLE product that's less good than $_new_shiny_PC_thing" and it's always currently available products being pitched against conceptual products in the heads of Intel's fanboys that may come to market in a year. It's a ridiculous comparison. I got an M3 Pro Macbook Pro on clearance recently for $1,600, 16 inch screen brighter than any PC laptop's I've ever seen, that's the fastest computer I have ever used, hands down and it's 2 generations out of date already. OR I can have a PC gaming laptop where the fit and finish isn't as nice, where the screen is blurrier, the battery life maxes out at 4 hours if I do absolutely nothing with it, and any time I do anything of remote consequence the fans kick up and make it sound like it's trying to take off. And that's without even taking into account the awful mess Windows is lately, especially around power management. It makes every laptop experience frustrating, with the same issues that were there when I was in fucking high school. Like if you just hate Mac, fine, obviously a Mac is a bad fit for you then and I wouldn't try and tell you otherwise. But I absolutely reserve the right to giggle when those same people are turning their logical brains into pretzels to justify hating a Mac when it has utterly left the PC behind in all things apart from gaming.
- b_e_n_t_o_n 1y ago
  And even for gaming, depending on what you play it's perfectly serviceable.
- hinkley 1y ago
  When the Thunderbolt Display came out I was in a raid group and I wanted a display with great refresh rate and low delay (melee character, don’t get stuck standing in the poo). So I researched and researched and the only monitor that had equivalent response times to that dumb Thunderbolt Display was only $60 cheaper, had a plastic shell and I’d have to fight UPS over getting it. Or I could drive across town and have a monitor today and pay $60 for the aluminum shell that hides dust better.

AndrewDucker 1y ago

Leaving aside the availability of various Intel processors, exactly what I want is for the various manufacturers to compete as hard as they possibly can. I want Intel to catch up this month. And then next month I want AMD to overtake them. And then ARM to make them all look slow. And then Apple to show them how it's done. The absolute last thing I'd want is for Apple to have special magic chips that nobody else even comes close to.

doomroot13 1y ago

I am excited about Panther Lake myself but where are you reading that it has higher performance/watt than M5? The chips aren't even out yet. All we have are Intel marketing materials with vague lines on charts. No one could have possibly done a performance/watt test on Panther Lake yet. I'm hoping they beat M5 but if I had to, I'd put my money on M5.

BirAdam 1y ago

From what I’ve read, single thread for panther lake is roughly the same as last gen. The gains are in efficiency, multi thread, and GPU. The most optimistic reading I’ve seen suggested 50% gains in GPU performance and in multithread. I’ll wait for independent testing before making any judgements, but Intel has a way to go to rebuild trust.

tacticus 1y ago
so slower compared to the 14th gens. Though it sounds like it won't be a 400W desktop part at least.

rsynnott 1y ago

... I mean, given Intel's history in this department, you'd probably want to wait until Panther Lake is available before getting too excited.