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I've slowly been coming to see voting for Trump as a populist revolt against the educated elite. The educated elite has embraced the Progressive Left, but refus

I've slowly been coming to see voting for Trump as a populist revolt against the educated elite. The educated elite has embraced the Progressive Left, but refuses to acknowledge that a lot of people are simply do not agree that this is a positive development. But the Progressive Left keeps making that position not acceptable. Hillary Clinton's "deplorables" comment--and the fact that it got laughs--is a minor example. The Progressive Left has been making it harder to live as someone with a different opinion, and 2024 was the year everybody else revolted; I think even white men finally voted majority Republican, after the minorities slowly peeled off over the past decade. Trump is appalling, but I think the election makes more sense if you look at it as the non-elite population saying "we want less Progressivism", and Trump promised that he would deliver. Since nobody in the elite was listening, they had to say it louder and louder, until Trump became their mouthpiece. (This is probably all subconscious, of course.) If educated elites continue to along their current path, which I expect, because this seems to be a matter of essentially religious righteousness for them, I expect it will be said even louder, with potentially disastrous consequences for everyone. Continued Progressivism will also be disastrous, but in a different way. It won't be Putin, but dissent will certainly not be tolerated. Similar dynamics are happening in the UK, except that I don't think there is a Trump figure there, so the message is more diffuse. I expect you can probably look at Canada to see how continued Progressivism will work out.

bigfudge 1y ago
The problem with this argument is that you imply that the left could simply choose to do away with what you call progressivism at no cost. In fact, what you’re calling progressivism and what is rejected by many Trump voters our fundamental rights for women, gay people, other minorities, et cetera. The US is not particularly progressive by the standards of most developed democracies. It’s true the other countries have managed to maintain abroad consensus around minority rights in a way the US has not, but it’s inconceivable to concede much of this ground now. Gay marriage, reproductive rights et cetera. Are not simple things to give up. I find it almost impossible to seriously entertain arguments against them. What you’re asking for is for educated people to fundamentally undermine core principles that are part of a fairly coherent and consistent world view.
verall 1y ago
> and 2024 was the year everybody else revolted; I think even white men finally voted majority Republican I believe white men have voted majority Republican in every election since 2000, probably going back further but I haven't bothered to check
platevoltage 1y ago
> The Progressive Left has been making it harder to live as someone with a different opinion Out of curiosity, how?
- supportengineer 1y ago
  I think they are referring to the concept of Democratic party "purity tests".
  - cosmicgadget 1y ago
    It is entirely possible to live without being in the Democratic Party.
    - AnimalMuppet 1y ago
      For example, at least some universities started adopting them, at least for new faculty. I mean, it's entirely possible to live without being a university professor, too...
      - cosmicgadget 1y ago
        Purity tests or rules of conduct like respecting someone's gender identity? How many universities such that it becomes impossible to be a university professor without ideologically conforming to the progressive movement?
        platevoltage 1y ago
        It was probably impossible to become a university professor if you didn't conform to earlier progressive movements as well, like if you slow to come to terms with women becoming educated, or black people integrating into American society. If you can't figure out how to call someone by their own name, go pack boxes in a warehouse for a living.
        1y ago
supportengineer 1y ago
I see where you're coming from. Democrats haven't done a good job of reaching those blue collar voters in the red states. What might this look like? It might look like AOC taking a trip down south to spend the day with southern folks at a pig pickin', a crawfish boil, a monster truck show, day on the shooting range, etc.
hypeatei 1y ago
Seeing the results of the 2024 election as anything other than a lashing out against COVID inflation tells me you might be in a right wing media bubble. Incumbents lost globally, not just in the US. Pretending there was some big conspiracy by Dems to silence people for different opinions is flat out delusional. Hillary was correct on her "deplorables" comment but was too early; right wingers are perfectly happy to cheer on cancel culture, corruption, and civil rights violations as long as illegals are being deported and sent to a labor camp in El Salvador.
cosmicgadget 1y ago
> I, a nobody, am so deathly afraid of getting cancelled that I'm going to vote for the other guy who checked all the boxes of being a terrible leader They're getting everything the voted for.
ant_li0n 1y ago
It's only a feeling that I have, but I think that some folks live in a scarcity mindset, where they are only barely holding on to what they have. Note that this does not actually have to be their lived reality - you can be rich and think this way. Trying to adjust the system to "give more" to other people means less available to them. Sort of a zero-sum perspective on the world. If someone else gains, that means I lose. This logic is fundamentally flawed. Pointing this out to people (often in strong language) makes them defensive. This creates the perfect combination to get people to vote against their best interests. It's not about "being progressive" or "elite". It's about playing to the fears of people who are already fearful.

bigfudge 1y ago

The problem with this argument is that you imply that the left could simply choose to do away with what you call progressivism at no cost. In fact, what you’re calling progressivism and what is rejected by many Trump voters our fundamental rights for women, gay people, other minorities, et cetera. The US is not particularly progressive by the standards of most developed democracies. It’s true the other countries have managed to maintain abroad consensus around minority rights in a way the US has not, but it’s inconceivable to concede much of this ground now. Gay marriage, reproductive rights et cetera. Are not simple things to give up. I find it almost impossible to seriously entertain arguments against them. What you’re asking for is for educated people to fundamentally undermine core principles that are part of a fairly coherent and consistent world view.

verall 1y ago

> and 2024 was the year everybody else revolted; I think even white men finally voted majority Republican I believe white men have voted majority Republican in every election since 2000, probably going back further but I haven't bothered to check

platevoltage 1y ago

> The Progressive Left has been making it harder to live as someone with a different opinion Out of curiosity, how?

supportengineer 1y ago
I think they are referring to the concept of Democratic party "purity tests".
- cosmicgadget 1y ago
  It is entirely possible to live without being in the Democratic Party.
  - AnimalMuppet 1y ago
    For example, at least some universities started adopting them, at least for new faculty. I mean, it's entirely possible to live without being a university professor, too...
    - cosmicgadget 1y ago
      Purity tests or rules of conduct like respecting someone's gender identity? How many universities such that it becomes impossible to be a university professor without ideologically conforming to the progressive movement?
      - platevoltage 1y ago
        It was probably impossible to become a university professor if you didn't conform to earlier progressive movements as well, like if you slow to come to terms with women becoming educated, or black people integrating into American society. If you can't figure out how to call someone by their own name, go pack boxes in a warehouse for a living.
        1y ago

supportengineer 1y ago

I see where you're coming from. Democrats haven't done a good job of reaching those blue collar voters in the red states. What might this look like? It might look like AOC taking a trip down south to spend the day with southern folks at a pig pickin', a crawfish boil, a monster truck show, day on the shooting range, etc.

hypeatei 1y ago

Seeing the results of the 2024 election as anything other than a lashing out against COVID inflation tells me you might be in a right wing media bubble. Incumbents lost globally, not just in the US. Pretending there was some big conspiracy by Dems to silence people for different opinions is flat out delusional. Hillary was correct on her "deplorables" comment but was too early; right wingers are perfectly happy to cheer on cancel culture, corruption, and civil rights violations as long as illegals are being deported and sent to a labor camp in El Salvador.

cosmicgadget 1y ago

> I, a nobody, am so deathly afraid of getting cancelled that I'm going to vote for the other guy who checked all the boxes of being a terrible leader They're getting everything the voted for.

ant_li0n 1y ago

It's only a feeling that I have, but I think that some folks live in a scarcity mindset, where they are only barely holding on to what they have. Note that this does not actually have to be their lived reality - you can be rich and think this way. Trying to adjust the system to "give more" to other people means less available to them. Sort of a zero-sum perspective on the world. If someone else gains, that means I lose. This logic is fundamentally flawed. Pointing this out to people (often in strong language) makes them defensive. This creates the perfect combination to get people to vote against their best interests. It's not about "being progressive" or "elite". It's about playing to the fears of people who are already fearful.