30 ms·

In November of 2024, I thought Americans voted to turn their country into Russia, and I still think that's largely right (the oligarchy, the arbitrarily repress

In November of 2024, I thought Americans voted to turn their country into Russia, and I still think that's largely right (the oligarchy, the arbitrarily repressive legal system, the endless media sycophancy, the masked paramilitary thugs, etc), but it's also not the complete story. Authoritarian governments like Russia also tend to invest in state capacity and science, so MAHA and DOGE's work is kind of an outlier and a unique American innovation in the space of creating authoritarian hellscapes. Let's see how it works out for them.

mmooss 1y ago
Think of it like a private equity acquisition - of government. Cut as much cost as possible, give the assets to yourself by liquidating and by running up debt, leave the husk for someone else. Also, they are reactionary; the top priority of reactionaries is to destroy their opposition, not to achieve other things. And by destroying government, they leave a power vaccuum for powerful private parties to fill.
JumpCrisscross 1y ago
> Authoritarian governments like Russia also tend to invest in state capacity and science Russia? The country whose military is shitting the bed fighting an army that can’t project more than a third into its interior, whose “hypersonic” missiles are being shot down by 90s Patriot kit and whose space programme has—sensibly—seemingly given up on landing on the Moon? Chinese authoritarianism can be sung some praises. At least until the wolf warriors get overconfident and tank the advantages meticulously eked out by their colleagues. But Russia? It’s chosen a policy of near-term vainglory at the expense of the Russian state existing within its current borders come 2050.
hypeatei 1y ago
The issue is that Trump is a vessel that all sorts of people are trying to use to push their agenda. As long as you declare loyalty to him, you're allowed in and can push whatever BS you want no matter how wacky or authoritarian it is. His own VP and health secretary have even called him Hitler but wised up so that they were allowed on the train!
prewett 1y ago
I've slowly been coming to see voting for Trump as a populist revolt against the educated elite. The educated elite has embraced the Progressive Left, but refuses to acknowledge that a lot of people are simply do not agree that this is a positive development. But the Progressive Left keeps making that position not acceptable. Hillary Clinton's "deplorables" comment--and the fact that it got laughs--is a minor example. The Progressive Left has been making it harder to live as someone with a different opinion, and 2024 was the year everybody else revolted; I think even white men finally voted majority Republican, after the minorities slowly peeled off over the past decade. Trump is appalling, but I think the election makes more sense if you look at it as the non-elite population saying "we want less Progressivism", and Trump promised that he would deliver. Since nobody in the elite was listening, they had to say it louder and louder, until Trump became their mouthpiece. (This is probably all subconscious, of course.) If educated elites continue to along their current path, which I expect, because this seems to be a matter of essentially religious righteousness for them, I expect it will be said even louder, with potentially disastrous consequences for everyone. Continued Progressivism will also be disastrous, but in a different way. It won't be Putin, but dissent will certainly not be tolerated. Similar dynamics are happening in the UK, except that I don't think there is a Trump figure there, so the message is more diffuse. I expect you can probably look at Canada to see how continued Progressivism will work out.
- bigfudge 1y ago
  The problem with this argument is that you imply that the left could simply choose to do away with what you call progressivism at no cost. In fact, what you’re calling progressivism and what is rejected by many Trump voters our fundamental rights for women, gay people, other minorities, et cetera. The US is not particularly progressive by the standards of most developed democracies. It’s true the other countries have managed to maintain abroad consensus around minority rights in a way the US has not, but it’s inconceivable to concede much of this ground now. Gay marriage, reproductive rights et cetera. Are not simple things to give up. I find it almost impossible to seriously entertain arguments against them. What you’re asking for is for educated people to fundamentally undermine core principles that are part of a fairly coherent and consistent world view.
- 1y ago

mmooss 1y ago

Think of it like a private equity acquisition - of government. Cut as much cost as possible, give the assets to yourself by liquidating and by running up debt, leave the husk for someone else. Also, they are reactionary; the top priority of reactionaries is to destroy their opposition, not to achieve other things. And by destroying government, they leave a power vaccuum for powerful private parties to fill.

JumpCrisscross 1y ago

> Authoritarian governments like Russia also tend to invest in state capacity and science Russia? The country whose military is shitting the bed fighting an army that can’t project more than a third into its interior, whose “hypersonic” missiles are being shot down by 90s Patriot kit and whose space programme has—sensibly—seemingly given up on landing on the Moon? Chinese authoritarianism can be sung some praises. At least until the wolf warriors get overconfident and tank the advantages meticulously eked out by their colleagues. But Russia? It’s chosen a policy of near-term vainglory at the expense of the Russian state existing within its current borders come 2050.

hypeatei 1y ago

The issue is that Trump is a vessel that all sorts of people are trying to use to push their agenda. As long as you declare loyalty to him, you're allowed in and can push whatever BS you want no matter how wacky or authoritarian it is. His own VP and health secretary have even called him Hitler but wised up so that they were allowed on the train!

prewett 1y ago

I've slowly been coming to see voting for Trump as a populist revolt against the educated elite. The educated elite has embraced the Progressive Left, but refuses to acknowledge that a lot of people are simply do not agree that this is a positive development. But the Progressive Left keeps making that position not acceptable. Hillary Clinton's "deplorables" comment--and the fact that it got laughs--is a minor example. The Progressive Left has been making it harder to live as someone with a different opinion, and 2024 was the year everybody else revolted; I think even white men finally voted majority Republican, after the minorities slowly peeled off over the past decade. Trump is appalling, but I think the election makes more sense if you look at it as the non-elite population saying "we want less Progressivism", and Trump promised that he would deliver. Since nobody in the elite was listening, they had to say it louder and louder, until Trump became their mouthpiece. (This is probably all subconscious, of course.) If educated elites continue to along their current path, which I expect, because this seems to be a matter of essentially religious righteousness for them, I expect it will be said even louder, with potentially disastrous consequences for everyone. Continued Progressivism will also be disastrous, but in a different way. It won't be Putin, but dissent will certainly not be tolerated. Similar dynamics are happening in the UK, except that I don't think there is a Trump figure there, so the message is more diffuse. I expect you can probably look at Canada to see how continued Progressivism will work out.

bigfudge 1y ago
The problem with this argument is that you imply that the left could simply choose to do away with what you call progressivism at no cost. In fact, what you’re calling progressivism and what is rejected by many Trump voters our fundamental rights for women, gay people, other minorities, et cetera. The US is not particularly progressive by the standards of most developed democracies. It’s true the other countries have managed to maintain abroad consensus around minority rights in a way the US has not, but it’s inconceivable to concede much of this ground now. Gay marriage, reproductive rights et cetera. Are not simple things to give up. I find it almost impossible to seriously entertain arguments against them. What you’re asking for is for educated people to fundamentally undermine core principles that are part of a fairly coherent and consistent world view.
1y ago