3 ms·

I always find this so funny. “Citizens have guns so they can overthrow a government that has tanks, helicopters, nuclear weapons, bunker busting bombs, etc”

ericmay 1y ago
Ok so the US military is going to drop a nuclear weapon on Dallas or Buffalo to stop insurgents? Why even bother writing something like that when you know it’s stupid? Obviously governments have superior firepower and can and have quashed rebellions. But rebellions have been successful as well. Taking away arms from the people makes rebellion in the case of tyranny that much harder. I don’t think it’s unfair to question whether such rights are worthwhile or not, but I do think it’s unfair to suggest that since the government has helicopters you can’t have a rebellion. They sure didn’t need any tanks or helicopters when the MAGA goons tried to hang Mike Pence and Nancy Pelosi.
- martin-t 1y ago
  Not to mention the army is composed of people who, despite systematic indoctrination, can decide to switch sides. However, this is a huge danger of ML ("AI"). It allows individuals to concentrate power. All real-world power comes from violence. Sufficiently advanced ML models allow individuals to profile subordinates and remove them before they rebel and (partially now but increasingly in the future) to control swarms of drones and robots.
  - ericmay 1y ago
    Really good call out on the AI/ML. Now that is dangerous. Also, as an army veteran who served on active duty including a tour in Iraq (not direct combat role, thankfully) I can tell you that in my experience you're spot on - the systematic indoctrination isn't to a political party but it's to the military and to defending the country and the Constitution. That's up to interpretation. The military has never been faced with resolving a constitutional crises so we really don't know how things would play out - but not every soldier is a rabid Trump supporter or something. Far from it. Very far from it.
- JustExAWS 1y ago
  If today, the National Guard dropped a non nuclear bomb on a blue city, 40% of the US population would shrug if not outright cheer. https://digitalcommons.wayne.edu/socprac/vol10/iss1/15/ https://digitalcommons.wayne.edu/socprac/vol10/iss1/15/ Rebellions have been successful in underfunded countries with few resources. Can you actually come up with a scenario where a few yokels in the south running around the field playing militia could overthrow the US government? And those people were all pardoned by the same President who cheered them and on and he was voted back into office. If Trump - who was still president then had wanted to call in the full force of government he could have. Do you think they would have let thousands of minorities invade the capital?
  - ericmay 1y ago
    There are no red or blue cities or states. This is a made up fiction and we should stop using those terms because they are divisive and only serve to make the country weak. > Can you actually come up with a scenario where a few yokels in the south running around the field playing militia could overthrow the US government? No because that's a strawman. Though those yokels on January 6th sure gave it a try. > If today, the National Guard dropped a non nuclear bomb on a blue city, 40% of the US population would shrug if not outright cheer. This would never happen unless there's a zombie apocalypse or that city was invaded by another country. No American would cheer a nuclear bomb being dropped on New York or Houston or something - why are you even entertaining such outlandish nonsense?
    - JustExAWS 1y ago
      There are very much two views of what America should be like and pretending there isn’t is why Democrats keep losing. 40% of Americans cheer how the current administration treats immigrants, non straight people, etc and continue defend the words of a racist podcaster. They wouldn’t want a “nuclear” bomb because it affects them. But there was no real fallout politically for the police MOVE bombing. If you don’t think this country is divided, you haven’t been looking at where this country is and it’s view on reality. Those yokels on January 6th tried. But do you think they could have overcome even the local SWAT let alone the military? There have been yokels running around for decades trying. Heck an entire Confedrrsre army couldn’t defeat the US government backed by the states

ericmay 1y ago

Ok so the US military is going to drop a nuclear weapon on Dallas or Buffalo to stop insurgents? Why even bother writing something like that when you know it’s stupid? Obviously governments have superior firepower and can and have quashed rebellions. But rebellions have been successful as well. Taking away arms from the people makes rebellion in the case of tyranny that much harder. I don’t think it’s unfair to question whether such rights are worthwhile or not, but I do think it’s unfair to suggest that since the government has helicopters you can’t have a rebellion. They sure didn’t need any tanks or helicopters when the MAGA goons tried to hang Mike Pence and Nancy Pelosi.

martin-t 1y ago
Not to mention the army is composed of people who, despite systematic indoctrination, can decide to switch sides. However, this is a huge danger of ML ("AI"). It allows individuals to concentrate power. All real-world power comes from violence. Sufficiently advanced ML models allow individuals to profile subordinates and remove them before they rebel and (partially now but increasingly in the future) to control swarms of drones and robots.
- ericmay 1y ago
  Really good call out on the AI/ML. Now that is dangerous. Also, as an army veteran who served on active duty including a tour in Iraq (not direct combat role, thankfully) I can tell you that in my experience you're spot on - the systematic indoctrination isn't to a political party but it's to the military and to defending the country and the Constitution. That's up to interpretation. The military has never been faced with resolving a constitutional crises so we really don't know how things would play out - but not every soldier is a rabid Trump supporter or something. Far from it. Very far from it.
JustExAWS 1y ago
If today, the National Guard dropped a non nuclear bomb on a blue city, 40% of the US population would shrug if not outright cheer. https://digitalcommons.wayne.edu/socprac/vol10/iss1/15/ https://digitalcommons.wayne.edu/socprac/vol10/iss1/15/ Rebellions have been successful in underfunded countries with few resources. Can you actually come up with a scenario where a few yokels in the south running around the field playing militia could overthrow the US government? And those people were all pardoned by the same President who cheered them and on and he was voted back into office. If Trump - who was still president then had wanted to call in the full force of government he could have. Do you think they would have let thousands of minorities invade the capital?
- ericmay 1y ago
  There are no red or blue cities or states. This is a made up fiction and we should stop using those terms because they are divisive and only serve to make the country weak. > Can you actually come up with a scenario where a few yokels in the south running around the field playing militia could overthrow the US government? No because that's a strawman. Though those yokels on January 6th sure gave it a try. > If today, the National Guard dropped a non nuclear bomb on a blue city, 40% of the US population would shrug if not outright cheer. This would never happen unless there's a zombie apocalypse or that city was invaded by another country. No American would cheer a nuclear bomb being dropped on New York or Houston or something - why are you even entertaining such outlandish nonsense?
  - JustExAWS 1y ago
    There are very much two views of what America should be like and pretending there isn’t is why Democrats keep losing. 40% of Americans cheer how the current administration treats immigrants, non straight people, etc and continue defend the words of a racist podcaster. They wouldn’t want a “nuclear” bomb because it affects them. But there was no real fallout politically for the police MOVE bombing. If you don’t think this country is divided, you haven’t been looking at where this country is and it’s view on reality. Those yokels on January 6th tried. But do you think they could have overcome even the local SWAT let alone the military? There have been yokels running around for decades trying. Heck an entire Confedrrsre army couldn’t defeat the US government backed by the states