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I'm very annoyed by this requirement. It doesn't hold up to the slightest scrutiny as being necessary yet completely hinders most opportunities for true disrupt

I'm very annoyed by this requirement. It doesn't hold up to the slightest scrutiny as being necessary yet completely hinders most opportunities for true disruptiveness.

DannoHung 14y ago
You don't think the novelty and risk associated with a fully automated system that's still in the experimental stages warrants any immediate caution? Commercial planes have had autopilot for years, but they still require at least the pilot or co-pilot to sit behind the yoke. When driverless cars have had a few million or billion hours without statistically significant incidents, I think we'll see the laws adapt to not even requiring a human fail-safe.
- neurotech1 14y ago
  Actually, for commercial airliners its "worse". They require both a pilot and co-pilot behind the yoke, even in autopilot. If an airliner is flown with less than two crew in the cockpit, even for a short period of time, the remaining pilot/co-pilot must wear a mask when flying above 25,000ft.
  - waterlesscloud 14y ago
    Airliners used to have a third crew member, the Flight Engineer, but that job has been automated into oblivion.
    - neurotech1 14y ago
      A friend mentioned that non-scheduled (no passengers or commercial freight) flights in large aircraft (eg. 737) can still operate with a single-pilot and a rated flight engineer only. The pilot had to have her mask on (or clipped to the helmet) for the entire flight. This option is rarely done commercially, obviously.
waterlesscloud 14y ago
I think the slightest scrutiny shows its complete necessity. No licensed driver, car encounters situation it's not programmed for. Now what?
- percentcer 14y ago
  Car pulls over, unlicensed driver calls a cab.
  - keeperofdakeys 14y ago
    Unfortunately there is a very, very, large set of possible situations a car may find itself in that requires 'user intervention'. Especially without much context-aware systems, or AI, the best error handler a driver-less car has is "stop, inform driver". Is there a curb to pull over to? What if the system is unable to determine if the path is clear because something like a branch is in the way?
- tobyjsullivan 14y ago
  Well, my line of argument is that any driver in a self-driving car is going to be completely inattentive (think available-to-public, not a test-phase car). For any self-driving car to be considered safe enough for public use, the car will need to be proven absolutely safe in "emergency" situations (i.e., auto-shutoff, etc.). So, if the car is proven to be absolutely safe, then why do we need a driver? To pull it off the road after it shuts off or stops?
deleted 14y ago
[deleted]
neurotech1 14y ago
The whole purpose of the new autonomous vehicle law is to allow development of the systems in real-world conditions, before they can get to the next level of driving without a driver behind the wheel as a backup.
tzs 14y ago
Take professor Thrun's course on building self driving robots at Udacity, and then you'll see why this requirement is necessary at this stage of the development of this technology.

I'm very annoyed by this requirement. It doesn't hold up to the slightest scrutiny as being necessary yet completely hinders most opportunities for true disruptiveness.

DannoHung 14y ago

You don't think the novelty and risk associated with a fully automated system that's still in the experimental stages warrants any immediate caution? Commercial planes have had autopilot for years, but they still require at least the pilot or co-pilot to sit behind the yoke. When driverless cars have had a few million or billion hours without statistically significant incidents, I think we'll see the laws adapt to not even requiring a human fail-safe.

neurotech1 14y ago
Actually, for commercial airliners its "worse". They require both a pilot and co-pilot behind the yoke, even in autopilot. If an airliner is flown with less than two crew in the cockpit, even for a short period of time, the remaining pilot/co-pilot must wear a mask when flying above 25,000ft.
- waterlesscloud 14y ago
  Airliners used to have a third crew member, the Flight Engineer, but that job has been automated into oblivion.
  - neurotech1 14y ago
    A friend mentioned that non-scheduled (no passengers or commercial freight) flights in large aircraft (eg. 737) can still operate with a single-pilot and a rated flight engineer only. The pilot had to have her mask on (or clipped to the helmet) for the entire flight. This option is rarely done commercially, obviously.

waterlesscloud 14y ago

I think the slightest scrutiny shows its complete necessity. No licensed driver, car encounters situation it's not programmed for. Now what?

percentcer 14y ago
Car pulls over, unlicensed driver calls a cab.
- keeperofdakeys 14y ago
  Unfortunately there is a very, very, large set of possible situations a car may find itself in that requires 'user intervention'. Especially without much context-aware systems, or AI, the best error handler a driver-less car has is "stop, inform driver". Is there a curb to pull over to? What if the system is unable to determine if the path is clear because something like a branch is in the way?
tobyjsullivan 14y ago
Well, my line of argument is that any driver in a self-driving car is going to be completely inattentive (think available-to-public, not a test-phase car). For any self-driving car to be considered safe enough for public use, the car will need to be proven absolutely safe in "emergency" situations (i.e., auto-shutoff, etc.). So, if the car is proven to be absolutely safe, then why do we need a driver? To pull it off the road after it shuts off or stops?

deleted 14y ago

[deleted]

neurotech1 14y ago

The whole purpose of the new autonomous vehicle law is to allow development of the systems in real-world conditions, before they can get to the next level of driving without a driver behind the wheel as a backup.

tzs 14y ago

Take professor Thrun's course on building self driving robots at Udacity, and then you'll see why this requirement is necessary at this stage of the development of this technology.