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Yeah the writing is obvious ChatGPT-slop sadly. Edit: Related post on the front page: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45722069 https://news.ycombinator.co

Yeah the writing is obvious ChatGPT-slop sadly. Edit: Related post on the front page: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45722069 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45722069

lorenstewart 1y ago
Jeez! Y'all are quite harsh. I wrote this in sections and then tried to stitch it all together. I did my best to remove repetition, but overall it's my writing edited with the help of AI to moderate some of my personal biases. The value here is both checking out the code (written by me with the help of the maintainers of each framework) as well as tables for lighthouse scores and bundle sizes. I personally think the most important parts of the post are these two related parts: (1) the technofeudalism section (2) developing lightweight apps so a business does not feel the need to have a separate native codebase along with a specialized native team ($$$). I was hoping this post was a gift to many people by doing all this work for y'all, or at least providing a foundation from which you can fork and modify for your own use. It is an open question for everyone if start up time on cellular is something you need to worry about. All the other non-sense here misses the point.
lukan 1y ago
Can you guys share actual errors in the article, that indicate real slop? On first glance it seems very legit and personally I would be very hesistant judging something GPT slop based on some writing style.
- xnorswap 1y ago
  How about this? >> Marko delivers 12.6 kB raw (6.8 kB compressed). Next.js ships 497.8 kB raw (154.5 kB compressed). That’s a 39x difference in raw size that translates to real seconds on cellular networks. Sorry, it isn't 2006, cellular networks aren't spending "seconds" in the difference between 13kB and 500kB. Payload size can matter, but it's complete nonsense that 500kB would translate to "real seconds". Just spotted this section: >> The real-world cost: A 113 kB difference at 3G speeds (750 kbps) means 1.2 seconds for download plus 500ms to 1s for parse/execution on mobile CPUs. Total: 1.5 to 2 seconds slower between frameworks. 3G is literally being decommissioned, and 3G isn't 750kbps, it's significantly faster than that. > On first glance it seems very legit Yes, that's exactly the danger of AI slop. It's very plausible, very slick and very easy to digest. It also frequently contains unchecked errors without any strong signals that would traditionally go along with that.
  - lorenstewart 1y ago
    I don't really know what to say except that you're wrong here. There are many studies out there about loading time affecting conversions/sales. I link to the most recent study done by Speed Curve about the damage slow loading apps do to business metrics. Not wanting to believe something is very different from the thing being untrue. The differences between 13kB and 500kB are quite real and quite measurable.
    - lorenstewart 1y ago
      Related: 3G === spotty 4G (and you know from your own experience this is true)
  - mcintyre1994 1y ago
    In the summary at the top they also use a different smallest compressed size: "The real differentiator? Bundle sizes range from 28.8 kB to 176.3 kB compressed." That's why I stopped reading at your first quote, it didn't fit with the summary and there's no point reading a bunch of numbers and wondering which are made up.
    - lorenstewart 1y ago
      There are two measurements: the size of the index page, the size of the board page. You are quoting measurements of the board page.
  - lukan 1y ago
    Hm. Have you ever spend time away from the city? The article cites also the use case, real estate agents. They also struggle at times with bad connection issues it seems. And with a bad connection average websites do take seconds to load for me.
    - xnorswap 1y ago
      Questioning if I spend time away from a city is patronising nonsense. Websites taking seconds to load in bad mobile reception is usually down to latency and handshaking, not raw bandwidth. Show me a real world example of a single payload 500kB taking seconds longer than 13kB. It's not realistic.
gr4vityWall 1y ago
The user who posted that also post this thread's link yesterday, as well as many others. The account seems to be karma farming with AI-generated articles. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45724022 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45724022

Yeah the writing is obvious ChatGPT-slop sadly. Edit: Related post on the front page: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45722069 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45722069

lorenstewart 1y ago

Jeez! Y'all are quite harsh. I wrote this in sections and then tried to stitch it all together. I did my best to remove repetition, but overall it's my writing edited with the help of AI to moderate some of my personal biases. The value here is both checking out the code (written by me with the help of the maintainers of each framework) as well as tables for lighthouse scores and bundle sizes. I personally think the most important parts of the post are these two related parts: (1) the technofeudalism section (2) developing lightweight apps so a business does not feel the need to have a separate native codebase along with a specialized native team ($$$). I was hoping this post was a gift to many people by doing all this work for y'all, or at least providing a foundation from which you can fork and modify for your own use. It is an open question for everyone if start up time on cellular is something you need to worry about. All the other non-sense here misses the point.

lukan 1y ago

Can you guys share actual errors in the article, that indicate real slop? On first glance it seems very legit and personally I would be very hesistant judging something GPT slop based on some writing style.

xnorswap 1y ago
How about this? >> Marko delivers 12.6 kB raw (6.8 kB compressed). Next.js ships 497.8 kB raw (154.5 kB compressed). That’s a 39x difference in raw size that translates to real seconds on cellular networks. Sorry, it isn't 2006, cellular networks aren't spending "seconds" in the difference between 13kB and 500kB. Payload size can matter, but it's complete nonsense that 500kB would translate to "real seconds". Just spotted this section: >> The real-world cost: A 113 kB difference at 3G speeds (750 kbps) means 1.2 seconds for download plus 500ms to 1s for parse/execution on mobile CPUs. Total: 1.5 to 2 seconds slower between frameworks. 3G is literally being decommissioned, and 3G isn't 750kbps, it's significantly faster than that. > On first glance it seems very legit Yes, that's exactly the danger of AI slop. It's very plausible, very slick and very easy to digest. It also frequently contains unchecked errors without any strong signals that would traditionally go along with that.
- lorenstewart 1y ago
  I don't really know what to say except that you're wrong here. There are many studies out there about loading time affecting conversions/sales. I link to the most recent study done by Speed Curve about the damage slow loading apps do to business metrics. Not wanting to believe something is very different from the thing being untrue. The differences between 13kB and 500kB are quite real and quite measurable.
  - lorenstewart 1y ago
    Related: 3G === spotty 4G (and you know from your own experience this is true)
- mcintyre1994 1y ago
  In the summary at the top they also use a different smallest compressed size: "The real differentiator? Bundle sizes range from 28.8 kB to 176.3 kB compressed." That's why I stopped reading at your first quote, it didn't fit with the summary and there's no point reading a bunch of numbers and wondering which are made up.
  - lorenstewart 1y ago
    There are two measurements: the size of the index page, the size of the board page. You are quoting measurements of the board page.
- lukan 1y ago
  Hm. Have you ever spend time away from the city? The article cites also the use case, real estate agents. They also struggle at times with bad connection issues it seems. And with a bad connection average websites do take seconds to load for me.
  - xnorswap 1y ago
    Questioning if I spend time away from a city is patronising nonsense. Websites taking seconds to load in bad mobile reception is usually down to latency and handshaking, not raw bandwidth. Show me a real world example of a single payload 500kB taking seconds longer than 13kB. It's not realistic.

gr4vityWall 1y ago

The user who posted that also post this thread's link yesterday, as well as many others. The account seems to be karma farming with AI-generated articles. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45724022 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45724022