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As somebody using Svelte for a real production application, I can only 100% agree with their recommendations regarding Svelte because of the overall dev experie

As somebody using Svelte for a real production application, I can only 100% agree with their recommendations regarding Svelte because of the overall dev experience is unmatched. It just feels right. Easy. Simple. And I'm not even considering performance here as another benefit. I usually make the analogy of a video game, where you can pick the difficulty. Svelte/SvelteKit is working in the "easy" difficulty level. You can achieve the same end result and keep your sanity (and your hair).

appsoftware 1y ago
I've been using Svelte's custom elements (web components) to make components that slot into pages on an existing .net / alpine.js site. It's been a great dev experience and results in really portable components. Each component is it's own bundle (achieved via separate vite configs - you can also organise to bundle groups of components work together). Each of the tools in the tools section is a svelte custom element https://www.appsoftware.com/tools/utilities/calculators https://www.appsoftware.com/tools/utilities/calculators
- aitchnyu 1y ago
  Can we build the elements as part of light dom? Do they call their destructor when we navigate away?
fud101 1y ago
I would choose vue because you can still get paid for it but react is king by jobs. If you're playing in the hobby space then between liveview, datastar etc, there is plenty of cool stuff moving the needle. React is nice and simple IMHO which is why average devs like me enjoy it.
- MarcelOlsz 1y ago
  >React is nice and simple IMHO which is why average devs like me enjoy it. Maybe years ago. Now it's a bloated beast.
  - nawgz 1y ago
    Can you give some examples? I feel like React is still pretty much just React, having developed with it for a decade now. Hooks was the only meaningful API (surface) change, no?
    - brazukadev 1y ago
      https://react.dev/reference/react-compiler/directives/use-no-memo https://react.dev/reference/react-compiler/directives/use-no... "use no memo" react now needs you to declare what you are not using, using a language "feature" that does not exist. It is crazy how people keep denying reality wrt React.
      - nawgz 1y ago
        They gave an escape hatch to people who wrote malformed hooks so their build process wouldn't crash, I don't really think that's a meaningful use case. Are directives horrible? Absolutely. Did I encounter any need for this across porting 4 different apps and a component library to React 19? No, it was frictionless. Because React is the same as it has been for a long time.
    - xmprt 1y ago
      > having developed with it for a decade now I think this is the reason why React feels normal to you. But as someone coming into it fresh, React felt like there were always 4 different ways to do the same thing and 3 of them are wrong because they built a new API/there are more idiomatic ways to accomplish the same thing now. If you have a decade of experience, then you probably do most things the right/obvious way so don't even notice all the incorrect ways/footguns that React gives you.
      - fud101 1y ago
        If you're coming into it in 2025, it's even simpler. Just ignore the SSR stuff which Vercel are pushing and you're good. A lot of the path has been smoothed out over the years to make it an ideal place to start today.
pjmlp 1y ago
I will keep using Next.js, because that is what SaaS vendors support on their extension SDKs, and I have better things to do than build an ecosystem. Alternatives are great for those without these kinds of constraints. In which case, I rather use traditional Java and .NET frameworks with minimal JavaScript, if at all.
- mfru 1y ago
  How do you deal with the horrendously slow on-the-fly compile times in dev mode? I wonder how anyone gets any work done when they have to wait 10 seconds on every page load on a M3 Macbook Air
  - pjmlp 1y ago
    Turbopack helps, ever used C, C++, Rust, Scala, Swift in large scale projects? Back in 1999 - 2001, every time I wanted to do a make clean; make all in a C based product (actuall TCL with lots of C extensions), it took at least one hour build time.
    - mfru 1y ago
      I guess I am spoiled by Java and Angular then. Both compile for the same time as a page load in Next dev mode, but then everything is smooth sailing (and Angular also does hot-reloading well)
linhns 1y ago
Hmm but Svelte docs is one of the most unfriendly I ever read through.

appsoftware 1y ago

I've been using Svelte's custom elements (web components) to make components that slot into pages on an existing .net / alpine.js site. It's been a great dev experience and results in really portable components. Each component is it's own bundle (achieved via separate vite configs - you can also organise to bundle groups of components work together). Each of the tools in the tools section is a svelte custom element https://www.appsoftware.com/tools/utilities/calculators https://www.appsoftware.com/tools/utilities/calculators

aitchnyu 1y ago
Can we build the elements as part of light dom? Do they call their destructor when we navigate away?

fud101 1y ago

I would choose vue because you can still get paid for it but react is king by jobs. If you're playing in the hobby space then between liveview, datastar etc, there is plenty of cool stuff moving the needle. React is nice and simple IMHO which is why average devs like me enjoy it.

MarcelOlsz 1y ago
>React is nice and simple IMHO which is why average devs like me enjoy it. Maybe years ago. Now it's a bloated beast.
- nawgz 1y ago
  Can you give some examples? I feel like React is still pretty much just React, having developed with it for a decade now. Hooks was the only meaningful API (surface) change, no?
  - brazukadev 1y ago
    https://react.dev/reference/react-compiler/directives/use-no-memo https://react.dev/reference/react-compiler/directives/use-no... "use no memo" react now needs you to declare what you are not using, using a language "feature" that does not exist. It is crazy how people keep denying reality wrt React.
    - nawgz 1y ago
      They gave an escape hatch to people who wrote malformed hooks so their build process wouldn't crash, I don't really think that's a meaningful use case. Are directives horrible? Absolutely. Did I encounter any need for this across porting 4 different apps and a component library to React 19? No, it was frictionless. Because React is the same as it has been for a long time.
  - xmprt 1y ago
    > having developed with it for a decade now I think this is the reason why React feels normal to you. But as someone coming into it fresh, React felt like there were always 4 different ways to do the same thing and 3 of them are wrong because they built a new API/there are more idiomatic ways to accomplish the same thing now. If you have a decade of experience, then you probably do most things the right/obvious way so don't even notice all the incorrect ways/footguns that React gives you.
    - fud101 1y ago
      If you're coming into it in 2025, it's even simpler. Just ignore the SSR stuff which Vercel are pushing and you're good. A lot of the path has been smoothed out over the years to make it an ideal place to start today.

pjmlp 1y ago

I will keep using Next.js, because that is what SaaS vendors support on their extension SDKs, and I have better things to do than build an ecosystem. Alternatives are great for those without these kinds of constraints. In which case, I rather use traditional Java and .NET frameworks with minimal JavaScript, if at all.

mfru 1y ago
How do you deal with the horrendously slow on-the-fly compile times in dev mode? I wonder how anyone gets any work done when they have to wait 10 seconds on every page load on a M3 Macbook Air
- pjmlp 1y ago
  Turbopack helps, ever used C, C++, Rust, Scala, Swift in large scale projects? Back in 1999 - 2001, every time I wanted to do a make clean; make all in a C based product (actuall TCL with lots of C extensions), it took at least one hour build time.
  - mfru 1y ago
    I guess I am spoiled by Java and Angular then. Both compile for the same time as a page load in Next dev mode, but then everything is smooth sailing (and Angular also does hot-reloading well)

linhns 1y ago

Hmm but Svelte docs is one of the most unfriendly I ever read through.