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These cyclical democracies really need a way to easily Ctrl/Cmd+Z the damage done during a despotic episode.

by Razengan 1y ago

embedding-shape 1y ago
Maybe we could reset a democracy every N years (50?) and basically say "Out with everything" and start from scratch.
- Wowfunhappy 1y ago
  How on earth would this work? Would you throw out all of contract and business law? Any permits people have get reset? Is the military disbanded and restarted from scratch?
  - jncfhnb 1y ago
    Works for government funding
  - embedding-shape 1y ago
    > How on earth would this work? Maybe something similar to what the French been doing could do the trick: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_Republics https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_Republics Basically a bit more large scale changes every now and then, shake up the status quo.
- salawat 1y ago
  Originally, Jefferson imagined a state where all acts of legislation came with sunset dates. The idea being that a State would cap out and auto prune itself through the inherent friction of having to reapprove only the most important foundations of itself. Instead of accruing cruft, it'd allow for an equilibrium of law and liberties constantly returning to the public, and only the most unanimously supported measures to stay in force. A government for the living, rather than one of the legacies of the dead, which was favored by Madison.
  - gamblor956 1y ago
    And every other Founding Father rejected the idea as completely unworkable. The current shutdown demonstrates why Jefferson's idea was a bad idea.
    - salawat 1y ago
      No it doesn't. We've got so much cruft and deadlock because we've operated in a Madisonian regime. With that cruft comes selective enforcement, and with that both contempt, and loss of legitimacy in the eyes of the populace. It is enough that the younger generations feel hemmed in by a gerontocracy to see that something has gone horribly wrong, and that the direction we've been going is part of what got us to the current situation.
    - embedding-shape 1y ago
      > And every other Founding Father rejected the idea as completely unworkable. I went looking for more information when parent left their comment, and I found some letters: - Jefferson to Madison, Sept. 6, 1789 ("earth belongs in usufruct to the living" 19-year term, expiry by default) - Madison to Jefferson, Feb. 4, 1790 (three classes of laws; stability, property, tacit consent) - Jefferson to Samuel Kercheval, July 12, 1816 (periodic constitutional conventions every 19–20 years) You said "every other Founding Father" but I can't find any letters to/from anyone else, could you please share with me the source(s) you got this from so I could continue reading about this? Very interesting subject I hadn't hear about before.
      - gamblor956 1y ago
        The Constitution...
krapp 1y ago
There is an obvious solution but unfortunately it only seems to work on good Presidents.
- quuxplusone 1y ago
  Now, now. McKinley's record was mixed at best. (And no matter what you think of McKinley, Teddy Roosevelt must count as an upgrade, right?)

These cyclical democracies really need a way to easily Ctrl/Cmd+Z the damage done during a despotic episode.

embedding-shape 1y ago

Maybe we could reset a democracy every N years (50?) and basically say "Out with everything" and start from scratch.

Wowfunhappy 1y ago
How on earth would this work? Would you throw out all of contract and business law? Any permits people have get reset? Is the military disbanded and restarted from scratch?
- jncfhnb 1y ago
  Works for government funding
- embedding-shape 1y ago
  > How on earth would this work? Maybe something similar to what the French been doing could do the trick: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_Republics https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_Republics Basically a bit more large scale changes every now and then, shake up the status quo.
salawat 1y ago
Originally, Jefferson imagined a state where all acts of legislation came with sunset dates. The idea being that a State would cap out and auto prune itself through the inherent friction of having to reapprove only the most important foundations of itself. Instead of accruing cruft, it'd allow for an equilibrium of law and liberties constantly returning to the public, and only the most unanimously supported measures to stay in force. A government for the living, rather than one of the legacies of the dead, which was favored by Madison.
- gamblor956 1y ago
  And every other Founding Father rejected the idea as completely unworkable. The current shutdown demonstrates why Jefferson's idea was a bad idea.
  - salawat 1y ago
    No it doesn't. We've got so much cruft and deadlock because we've operated in a Madisonian regime. With that cruft comes selective enforcement, and with that both contempt, and loss of legitimacy in the eyes of the populace. It is enough that the younger generations feel hemmed in by a gerontocracy to see that something has gone horribly wrong, and that the direction we've been going is part of what got us to the current situation.
  - embedding-shape 1y ago
    > And every other Founding Father rejected the idea as completely unworkable. I went looking for more information when parent left their comment, and I found some letters: - Jefferson to Madison, Sept. 6, 1789 ("earth belongs in usufruct to the living" 19-year term, expiry by default) - Madison to Jefferson, Feb. 4, 1790 (three classes of laws; stability, property, tacit consent) - Jefferson to Samuel Kercheval, July 12, 1816 (periodic constitutional conventions every 19–20 years) You said "every other Founding Father" but I can't find any letters to/from anyone else, could you please share with me the source(s) you got this from so I could continue reading about this? Very interesting subject I hadn't hear about before.
    - gamblor956 1y ago
      The Constitution...

krapp 1y ago

There is an obvious solution but unfortunately it only seems to work on good Presidents.

quuxplusone 1y ago
Now, now. McKinley's record was mixed at best. (And no matter what you think of McKinley, Teddy Roosevelt must count as an upgrade, right?)