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That is a subset of thieves. There are still plenty of situations where it is beneficial to have a lock that can't be opened in 5 seconds with a paperclip, like

That is a subset of thieves. There are still plenty of situations where it is beneficial to have a lock that can't be opened in 5 seconds with a paperclip, like a school or gym locker room for example. Nobody is bringing a sawzall into the gym while it's open. Similarly, I know the lock on my front door is not going to stop anyone who really wants to get inside, but it does stop drunk people or bored kids from wandering in because it's easy.

jrnng 1y ago
> Nobody is bringing a sawzall into the gym while it's open. They are bringing in bolt cutters to locker rooms. The locker metal loop that the lock threads through is easier to cut than the lock. I've first hand seen lockers destroyed to remove the lock. Not while the break in is happening but it's easy piece the crime scene back together to understand their tools. Manual bolt cutters are almost silent except for the "thunk" when it breaks the metal, and there are even battery operated bolt cutters that are quick and compact.
- rags2riches 1y ago
  > I've first hand seen lockers destroyed to remove the lock. A neighbor secured his expensive bike with a hefty lock and chain around a tree in our courtyard. Bad guys brought a saw. I still miss that tree.
  - roncesvalles 1y ago
    I'm convinced there is basically no foolproof way to secure a bicycle in public. I've seen everything from braided steel being cut clean to combination bike locks getting picked (by the attacker actually figuring out the correct combination, not just brute-forcing it apart or wangjangling a paperclip). They just need to steal 1 good bicycle to more than pay off the cost of their equipment. One stolen bicycle could feed a family for a week. In some place like the Bay Area where $1000 bicycles abound, the economics are just too appealing.
    - avn2109 1y ago
      There is a new generation of bike locks which have the shackle wrapped in a composite coating that mostly destroys angle grinder cutting discs and similar cutting tools. This is likely the best current outdoor bike locking approach as it requires thieves to have either 1) lots of spare discs or 2) a torch or 3) picking skills, and very few thieves have any of those.
    - echelon 1y ago
      [flagged]
      - stephen_g 1y ago
        Self driving cars won’t fix the real problem - cars take up too much space for the number of people they carry in any reasonably dense city. I’d be quite confident bike lanes should be improving traffic by taking cars off the road more than they are causing “headaches” for traffic. There are well studied effects that show good bike infrastructure gets more people (especially the young, old, women etc.) cycling who would be too fearful to cycle in traffic, because separate cycle lanes are both in reality far safer but also feel far more safe. And bike lanes are actually really good for mobility scooters and other kinds of ways for elderly and disabled to get around!
      - techbrovanguard 1y ago
        the fat controller laughed, “you are wrong”. * https://youtu.be/040ejWnFkj0 https://youtu.be/040ejWnFkj0 * https://youtu.be/2DOd4RLNeT4 https://youtu.be/2DOd4RLNeT4
        commandersaki 1y ago
        Slightly disappointed that neither of these videos are about Thomas the Tank Engine.
    - user_7832 1y ago
      From what I've heard, the way to go about it is to not have a very nice bike, make it identifiable and loud (eg ripped up neon tape and graffiti), and then use both a chain lock as well as a U lock that're both thick enough. Also perhaps throw on extra locks to make other bikes look attractive. Of course none of these work if the thief is part of a ring that is targeting your bike because it's high value.
- xboxnolifes 1y ago
  My school had bolt cutter just sitting in the locker rooms because kids forgot their combinations.
throwway120385 1y ago
Yeah as long as we don't have unrealistic expectations from our $30 deadbolts and our $5 combo locks it's fine. But people sometimes buy the cheap thing and expect it to perform as well as a really expensive thing.
- pixl97 1y ago
  I suggest watching LPL then to see how often the expensive thing fails just as quickly as the cheap thing.
  - brazzy 1y ago
    That's usually with skills that few have the time to acquire. But I also saw on LPL where he tested a cheap Chinese lock, where the "hardened steel" had a visible groove after just a few strokes of a file, and you could use pliers to rip off the plastic cover around the keyhole, after which all the little parts of the lock mechanism came tumbling out...
Macha 1y ago
> like a school or gym locker room for example We broke into our own lockers the whole time with metal rulers back when I was in school because of forgotten keys or just because it was quicker opening them that way than actually unlocking and relocking them. (And of course the more students did this, the more worn the metal became and made it even easier the next time)
dghlsakjg 1y ago
Most people would be absolutely astounded how bold you can get with a safety vest and/or a clipboard, and how passive most people are to an obvious suspicious situation. I have used a grinder to take off a bike lock (I owned the bike) in broad daylight in Downtown Denver on a main street. A local business even allowed me to use their power outlets. Not one person questioned me or asked me to see proof of ownership. I was fully prepared to have to deal with cops or at least a good samaritan, but nope, plenty of people watched me do the exact thing a bike thief would do and didn't ask any questions.
- mywittyname 1y ago
  > Most people would be absolutely astounded how bold you can get with a safety vest and/or a clipboard, and how passive most people are to an obvious suspicious situation. I don't think they'd be surprised at all. What the hell am I supposed to do if I see someone stealing a bike or whatever? Stop them? Hell no, if they have tools then it's a good bet they have weapons. Call the cops? They don't care; recently they don't even pretend to care. Pretty much all you can do is say, "knock it off" and maybe they stop (they won't).
  - xboxnolifes 1y ago
    You have to hope a stubborn, but surprisingly fit, 60+ year old man is nearby to assert himself into the situation and tell the thief to bugger off.
    - matheusmoreira 1y ago
      Don't do this and don't let anyone else do this. Intervening in a crime in progress is likely to lead to immediate execution. Even police squads get shot at, and they are armed to the teeth and well trained.
      - jalapenos 1y ago
        That mentality is precisely what lets criminals gain the power to commit crime with impunity. In any shithole society in which that's become the attitude, the solution is citizens becoming at least as brutal themselves.

jrnng 1y ago

> Nobody is bringing a sawzall into the gym while it's open. They are bringing in bolt cutters to locker rooms. The locker metal loop that the lock threads through is easier to cut than the lock. I've first hand seen lockers destroyed to remove the lock. Not while the break in is happening but it's easy piece the crime scene back together to understand their tools. Manual bolt cutters are almost silent except for the "thunk" when it breaks the metal, and there are even battery operated bolt cutters that are quick and compact.

rags2riches 1y ago
> I've first hand seen lockers destroyed to remove the lock. A neighbor secured his expensive bike with a hefty lock and chain around a tree in our courtyard. Bad guys brought a saw. I still miss that tree.
- roncesvalles 1y ago
  I'm convinced there is basically no foolproof way to secure a bicycle in public. I've seen everything from braided steel being cut clean to combination bike locks getting picked (by the attacker actually figuring out the correct combination, not just brute-forcing it apart or wangjangling a paperclip). They just need to steal 1 good bicycle to more than pay off the cost of their equipment. One stolen bicycle could feed a family for a week. In some place like the Bay Area where $1000 bicycles abound, the economics are just too appealing.
  - avn2109 1y ago
    There is a new generation of bike locks which have the shackle wrapped in a composite coating that mostly destroys angle grinder cutting discs and similar cutting tools. This is likely the best current outdoor bike locking approach as it requires thieves to have either 1) lots of spare discs or 2) a torch or 3) picking skills, and very few thieves have any of those.
  - echelon 1y ago
    [flagged]
    - stephen_g 1y ago
      Self driving cars won’t fix the real problem - cars take up too much space for the number of people they carry in any reasonably dense city. I’d be quite confident bike lanes should be improving traffic by taking cars off the road more than they are causing “headaches” for traffic. There are well studied effects that show good bike infrastructure gets more people (especially the young, old, women etc.) cycling who would be too fearful to cycle in traffic, because separate cycle lanes are both in reality far safer but also feel far more safe. And bike lanes are actually really good for mobility scooters and other kinds of ways for elderly and disabled to get around!
    - techbrovanguard 1y ago
      the fat controller laughed, “you are wrong”. * https://youtu.be/040ejWnFkj0 https://youtu.be/040ejWnFkj0 * https://youtu.be/2DOd4RLNeT4 https://youtu.be/2DOd4RLNeT4
      - commandersaki 1y ago
        Slightly disappointed that neither of these videos are about Thomas the Tank Engine.
  - user_7832 1y ago
    From what I've heard, the way to go about it is to not have a very nice bike, make it identifiable and loud (eg ripped up neon tape and graffiti), and then use both a chain lock as well as a U lock that're both thick enough. Also perhaps throw on extra locks to make other bikes look attractive. Of course none of these work if the thief is part of a ring that is targeting your bike because it's high value.
xboxnolifes 1y ago
My school had bolt cutter just sitting in the locker rooms because kids forgot their combinations.

throwway120385 1y ago

Yeah as long as we don't have unrealistic expectations from our $30 deadbolts and our $5 combo locks it's fine. But people sometimes buy the cheap thing and expect it to perform as well as a really expensive thing.

pixl97 1y ago
I suggest watching LPL then to see how often the expensive thing fails just as quickly as the cheap thing.
- brazzy 1y ago
  That's usually with skills that few have the time to acquire. But I also saw on LPL where he tested a cheap Chinese lock, where the "hardened steel" had a visible groove after just a few strokes of a file, and you could use pliers to rip off the plastic cover around the keyhole, after which all the little parts of the lock mechanism came tumbling out...

Macha 1y ago

> like a school or gym locker room for example We broke into our own lockers the whole time with metal rulers back when I was in school because of forgotten keys or just because it was quicker opening them that way than actually unlocking and relocking them. (And of course the more students did this, the more worn the metal became and made it even easier the next time)

dghlsakjg 1y ago

Most people would be absolutely astounded how bold you can get with a safety vest and/or a clipboard, and how passive most people are to an obvious suspicious situation. I have used a grinder to take off a bike lock (I owned the bike) in broad daylight in Downtown Denver on a main street. A local business even allowed me to use their power outlets. Not one person questioned me or asked me to see proof of ownership. I was fully prepared to have to deal with cops or at least a good samaritan, but nope, plenty of people watched me do the exact thing a bike thief would do and didn't ask any questions.

mywittyname 1y ago
> Most people would be absolutely astounded how bold you can get with a safety vest and/or a clipboard, and how passive most people are to an obvious suspicious situation. I don't think they'd be surprised at all. What the hell am I supposed to do if I see someone stealing a bike or whatever? Stop them? Hell no, if they have tools then it's a good bet they have weapons. Call the cops? They don't care; recently they don't even pretend to care. Pretty much all you can do is say, "knock it off" and maybe they stop (they won't).
- xboxnolifes 1y ago
  You have to hope a stubborn, but surprisingly fit, 60+ year old man is nearby to assert himself into the situation and tell the thief to bugger off.
  - matheusmoreira 1y ago
    Don't do this and don't let anyone else do this. Intervening in a crime in progress is likely to lead to immediate execution. Even police squads get shot at, and they are armed to the teeth and well trained.
    - jalapenos 1y ago
      That mentality is precisely what lets criminals gain the power to commit crime with impunity. In any shithole society in which that's become the attitude, the solution is citizens becoming at least as brutal themselves.