5 ms·

Anti-DEI forces, once in power, turn out not to favor putative “diversity of opinion” after all.

by rectang 1y ago

throwaway091025 1y ago
[flagged]
- aaronbrethorst 1y ago
  Ahem: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_of_tolerance https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_of_tolerance
zo1 1y ago
[flagged]
- etchalon 1y ago
  pro-skin-diversity is a real weird way to say "against racism."
  - ipaddr 1y ago
    They are for racism. Treat one group different from others based on race. We can debate whether doing this rights historical wrongs but we can't pretend it is not racist to treat different people of different skin colors differently.
    - etchalon 1y ago
      We don't have to pretend it's not racist when it's factually not racist. And there's not really a debate about whether it rights historic wrong. There is a debate about whether righting historic wrongs is even possible. The debate is whether we can/should counterbalance existing wrongs in society. And I have hard time taking anyone seriously who says we shouldn't.
      - ipaddr 1y ago
        When you become what you are fighting against you become the problem. If the issue is not using a person's race to make blanket judgements against them then using someone's race to to counterbalance historical is equally as wrong. The message you are telling everyone is you should use someone's race to judge them. The people in power changes but the racism never goes away. You end up with foolish ideas like reparations where the people demanding money are a product of a union between a slave and slave owner where half of you should pay the other half. Or quota systems that exclude minorities because they aren't the right race. The racism you want to keep needs to be let go. You can't say racism is bad but then use it to enrich yourself.
        etchalon 1y ago
        Nothing in my post mentioned reparations, nor did it imply that all efforts are equal or even valid. The foolish idea is that you can't do anything about racism because it'd require helping some people while not helping others. Which is a bit like thinking you can't feed the hungry because you're not giving food to the obese.
        ipaddr 1y ago
        You can do a lot about racism from education to fairness laws but the one thing you can't do is use racism to stop racism. That's my core message. That's my point. Why not give food to all? You just want to give food to who you think is hungry based on great grandparents being hungry. Everyone should eat even the obese.
        etchalon 1y ago
        The entire issue is that, despite the law, some people refuse to feed everyone. And not a small handful of people, but a sizable enough population that their actions mean millions aren't fed. That's my point. Your "solution" only works if racism is eliminated. It is not eliminated, despite eduction and fairness laws. So we can either chose to feed the hungry or let them starve in the name of a false, ignorant, and naive position of neutrality.
    - worik 1y ago
      > They are for racism. Treat one group different from others based on race. "Racism" means the oppression of one group because of race. In an historically racist society (writing this in New Zealand) righting those historical wrongs involves some treating "...one group different from others based on race." It is bad enough here, and it continues here explicitly by the current government (indigenous people just lost a bunch of property rights because they were indigenous, blatant, official, statutory racism), but according to people I respect in the USA it is considerably worse there.
      - ipaddr 1y ago
        Are you talking about: "ACT New Zealand party, a junior partner in the governing centre-right coalition government, last week unveiled the bill, which it had promised during last year’s election, arguing that those rights should also apply to non-Indigenous citizens." How does grant others the same rights turn into racism. Shouldn't everyone have those rights including groups that are bigger minorites in New Zealand like blacks of Indians from India? When we single out groups for special treatment we exclude others who might need it more but who's voices are softer. It might be worse in the US compared to New Zealand but compared to most of the rest of the world: Middle East, India, Africa, Europe, Russia, China, Korea the US is the least racist place but also has the biggest anti-racism industry which makes their voiced louder.
        worik 1y ago
        No I am talking of the Foreshore and Seabed Act (under a different name) that overturned settled case law and disapropriated IWI claims for property rights. Māori have their property rights confiscated regularly. About every twenty or thirty years there is another round That said the racism here is mild compared to reports from the USA
- worik 1y ago
  > Playing nice seemed to not work for White people because they are systemically discriminated against in almost every Western and non-Western countr What utter ignorance of the prevailing social conditions in the West
- tasuki 1y ago
  > Playing nice seemed to not work for White people because they are systemically discriminated against in almost every Western and non-Western country. I'm white and not discriminated against in my Western-adjacent country (Czech Republic) and think most of Europe is the same. I see race-based politics as primarily a US thing: both the militant "diversity advocates" and the white supremacists. From my point of view over the ocean they are quite similar: putting importance of skin colour over other things.
- ericfr11 1y ago
  As a white American, this feels insulting to all those around me. Diversity is what made the US so great. White people are just one tone of the human palette.
iseletsk 1y ago
No one takes them to jail; companies and organizations can run however they want, unless they break laws. It doesn't mean that the government that runs and wins on an anti-DEI agenda should give them money.
elgenie 1y ago
Spelling things out helps with the euphemisms. Anti-diversity, equity, and inclusion forces turn out to be (gasp) against all of diversity, and equity, and inclusion.

Anti-DEI forces, once in power, turn out not to favor putative “diversity of opinion” after all.

throwaway091025 1y ago

[flagged]

aaronbrethorst 1y ago
Ahem: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_of_tolerance https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_of_tolerance

zo1 1y ago

[flagged]

etchalon 1y ago
pro-skin-diversity is a real weird way to say "against racism."
- ipaddr 1y ago
  They are for racism. Treat one group different from others based on race. We can debate whether doing this rights historical wrongs but we can't pretend it is not racist to treat different people of different skin colors differently.
  - etchalon 1y ago
    We don't have to pretend it's not racist when it's factually not racist. And there's not really a debate about whether it rights historic wrong. There is a debate about whether righting historic wrongs is even possible. The debate is whether we can/should counterbalance existing wrongs in society. And I have hard time taking anyone seriously who says we shouldn't.
    - ipaddr 1y ago
      When you become what you are fighting against you become the problem. If the issue is not using a person's race to make blanket judgements against them then using someone's race to to counterbalance historical is equally as wrong. The message you are telling everyone is you should use someone's race to judge them. The people in power changes but the racism never goes away. You end up with foolish ideas like reparations where the people demanding money are a product of a union between a slave and slave owner where half of you should pay the other half. Or quota systems that exclude minorities because they aren't the right race. The racism you want to keep needs to be let go. You can't say racism is bad but then use it to enrich yourself.
      - etchalon 1y ago
        Nothing in my post mentioned reparations, nor did it imply that all efforts are equal or even valid. The foolish idea is that you can't do anything about racism because it'd require helping some people while not helping others. Which is a bit like thinking you can't feed the hungry because you're not giving food to the obese.
        ipaddr 1y ago
        You can do a lot about racism from education to fairness laws but the one thing you can't do is use racism to stop racism. That's my core message. That's my point. Why not give food to all? You just want to give food to who you think is hungry based on great grandparents being hungry. Everyone should eat even the obese.
        etchalon 1y ago
        The entire issue is that, despite the law, some people refuse to feed everyone. And not a small handful of people, but a sizable enough population that their actions mean millions aren't fed. That's my point. Your "solution" only works if racism is eliminated. It is not eliminated, despite eduction and fairness laws. So we can either chose to feed the hungry or let them starve in the name of a false, ignorant, and naive position of neutrality.
  - worik 1y ago
    > They are for racism. Treat one group different from others based on race. "Racism" means the oppression of one group because of race. In an historically racist society (writing this in New Zealand) righting those historical wrongs involves some treating "...one group different from others based on race." It is bad enough here, and it continues here explicitly by the current government (indigenous people just lost a bunch of property rights because they were indigenous, blatant, official, statutory racism), but according to people I respect in the USA it is considerably worse there.
    - ipaddr 1y ago
      Are you talking about: "ACT New Zealand party, a junior partner in the governing centre-right coalition government, last week unveiled the bill, which it had promised during last year’s election, arguing that those rights should also apply to non-Indigenous citizens." How does grant others the same rights turn into racism. Shouldn't everyone have those rights including groups that are bigger minorites in New Zealand like blacks of Indians from India? When we single out groups for special treatment we exclude others who might need it more but who's voices are softer. It might be worse in the US compared to New Zealand but compared to most of the rest of the world: Middle East, India, Africa, Europe, Russia, China, Korea the US is the least racist place but also has the biggest anti-racism industry which makes their voiced louder.
      - worik 1y ago
        No I am talking of the Foreshore and Seabed Act (under a different name) that overturned settled case law and disapropriated IWI claims for property rights. Māori have their property rights confiscated regularly. About every twenty or thirty years there is another round That said the racism here is mild compared to reports from the USA
worik 1y ago
> Playing nice seemed to not work for White people because they are systemically discriminated against in almost every Western and non-Western countr What utter ignorance of the prevailing social conditions in the West
tasuki 1y ago
> Playing nice seemed to not work for White people because they are systemically discriminated against in almost every Western and non-Western country. I'm white and not discriminated against in my Western-adjacent country (Czech Republic) and think most of Europe is the same. I see race-based politics as primarily a US thing: both the militant "diversity advocates" and the white supremacists. From my point of view over the ocean they are quite similar: putting importance of skin colour over other things.
ericfr11 1y ago
As a white American, this feels insulting to all those around me. Diversity is what made the US so great. White people are just one tone of the human palette.

iseletsk 1y ago

No one takes them to jail; companies and organizations can run however they want, unless they break laws. It doesn't mean that the government that runs and wins on an anti-DEI agenda should give them money.

elgenie 1y ago

Spelling things out helps with the euphemisms. Anti-diversity, equity, and inclusion forces turn out to be (gasp) against all of diversity, and equity, and inclusion.