4 ms·

Lock-makers should start including RFID and a software key checking mechanism, then sharing the key would be illegal

ranger_danger 1y ago
> sharing the key would be illegal How so? And what region are you referring to? There are many countries in the world with vastly different laws.
- tgsovlerkhgsel 1y ago
  Unfortunately, the "region" would be the 193 member states of WIPO: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-circumvention https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-circumvention So, you are right, the laws in Micronesia, Palau and South Sudan might be vastly different.
dcan 1y ago
09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0
- butlike 1y ago
  plz stop! my hddvds...
- foofoo12 1y ago
  That's an illegal number mate. Straight to the slammer! (for those missing out: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AACS_encryption_key_controversy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AACS_encryption_key_controvers...)
- dmbche 1y ago
  Thabk you so much this is a beautiful rabbit hole to go down
nomel 1y ago
Could you make access illegal using the DMCA, by putting some copyrighted content inside, with the physical key also being the license key?
- tofof 1y ago
  This is how Nintendo engineered a legal argument disallowing 3rd party cartridges original GameBoy. The cartridge needed to display the Nintendo logo on startup which was checked pixel for pixel, otherwise the GameBoy wouldn't proceed with booting. Third party carts couldn't do so without infringing trademark.
  - NobodyNada 1y ago
    Note that the courts ruled this technique invalid in Sega v. Accolade: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sega_v._Accolade https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sega_v._Accolade But that was in a pre-DMCA world, before the anti-circumvention provisions gave these companies more legal weapons to criminalize fair use and competition.
butlike 1y ago
I don't really "get" locks. If you want something to be closed forever, seal it shut. If it should be opened and closed, leave a hinge. If it should only be open and closed by a select few, leave it in a trusted environment Don't you live in a good neighborhood?
- avhon1 1y ago
  I've lived in a fair few places, but I've never lived in a place where an unlocked bicycle wouldn't be stolen. I'll keep using locks, thank you very much.
  - BobaFloutist 1y ago
    I think they were probably making a joke about software security.
    - 48terry 1y ago
      I think the post was just really bad, myself.
- hereme888 1y ago
  A trusted environment, even in a "good neighborhood", requires a lock at least to the front door of your house, or gate, or w/e. But where will you park your car when you go to work? You have to lock it.
  - embedding-shape 1y ago
    > A trusted environment, even in a "good neighborhood", requires a lock at least to the front door of your house, or gate, or w/e. I don't think that's a trusted environment or "good neighborhood". But then I basically use "can leave front door unlocked with zero worries" as the threshold for "trusted environment". But those environments and neighborhoods definitively exists today across the world, although they're probably becoming less and less common.
lexszero_ 1y ago
Here in Finland mechanical locks with electronic keying are pretty common in some places. Some of them like iLOQ or Abloy eCLIQ are actually pretty clever: electrical bits of the lock are powered from mechanical action of inserting and turning the key, so you don't have to worry about batteries. In theory, they promise significant cost savings in scenarios like rental apartment buildings where tenants move in and out, need access to common areas, lose keys, etc, without compromising security or having to replace or recode locks - they just give you a generic key, click some buttons in the admin panel, and your key could be provisioned accordingly once you first enter the building and interact with one of the "smarter" locks that are externally powered and networked to the mothership. In practice, in addition to the usual bugs you would expect from a software-based system managed and maintained by a plethora of organizations and contractors, they tend to become very annoying as parts wear out, so you have to fiddle with the key reinserting it repeatedly trying to find just the right angle so it will make a good contact to be recognized by the lock (for example the iLOQ system by my landlord communicates over a thin contact strip molded into the key opposite of the cutting and separated from the rest of the key with a thin layer of plastic).
- georgefrowny 1y ago
  Sounds about right for Abloy. They own Yale and their app-based alarm is subcontracted dogshit (by https://mobilepeople.dk https://mobilepeople.dk) that didn't get updated for years on end, logs you out constantly, has less functionally than a 90s keypad model and even the hub thing sometimes just falls over and needs a power cycle, etc etc etc. Presumably they are entirely unable to handle any of it in house and are at the mercy of the contractor to fix anything.
taneq 1y ago
What criminal mastermind could possibly defeat the DMCA? :D

> sharing the key would be illegal How so? And what region are you referring to? There are many countries in the world with vastly different laws.

tgsovlerkhgsel 1y ago
Unfortunately, the "region" would be the 193 member states of WIPO: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-circumvention https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-circumvention So, you are right, the laws in Micronesia, Palau and South Sudan might be vastly different.

dcan 1y ago

09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0

butlike 1y ago
plz stop! my hddvds...
foofoo12 1y ago
That's an illegal number mate. Straight to the slammer! (for those missing out: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AACS_encryption_key_controversy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AACS_encryption_key_controvers...)
dmbche 1y ago
Thabk you so much this is a beautiful rabbit hole to go down

nomel 1y ago

Could you make access illegal using the DMCA, by putting some copyrighted content inside, with the physical key also being the license key?

tofof 1y ago
This is how Nintendo engineered a legal argument disallowing 3rd party cartridges original GameBoy. The cartridge needed to display the Nintendo logo on startup which was checked pixel for pixel, otherwise the GameBoy wouldn't proceed with booting. Third party carts couldn't do so without infringing trademark.
- NobodyNada 1y ago
  Note that the courts ruled this technique invalid in Sega v. Accolade: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sega_v._Accolade https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sega_v._Accolade But that was in a pre-DMCA world, before the anti-circumvention provisions gave these companies more legal weapons to criminalize fair use and competition.

butlike 1y ago

I don't really "get" locks. If you want something to be closed forever, seal it shut. If it should be opened and closed, leave a hinge. If it should only be open and closed by a select few, leave it in a trusted environment Don't you live in a good neighborhood?

avhon1 1y ago
I've lived in a fair few places, but I've never lived in a place where an unlocked bicycle wouldn't be stolen. I'll keep using locks, thank you very much.
- BobaFloutist 1y ago
  I think they were probably making a joke about software security.
  - 48terry 1y ago
    I think the post was just really bad, myself.
hereme888 1y ago
A trusted environment, even in a "good neighborhood", requires a lock at least to the front door of your house, or gate, or w/e. But where will you park your car when you go to work? You have to lock it.
- embedding-shape 1y ago
  > A trusted environment, even in a "good neighborhood", requires a lock at least to the front door of your house, or gate, or w/e. I don't think that's a trusted environment or "good neighborhood". But then I basically use "can leave front door unlocked with zero worries" as the threshold for "trusted environment". But those environments and neighborhoods definitively exists today across the world, although they're probably becoming less and less common.

lexszero_ 1y ago

Here in Finland mechanical locks with electronic keying are pretty common in some places. Some of them like iLOQ or Abloy eCLIQ are actually pretty clever: electrical bits of the lock are powered from mechanical action of inserting and turning the key, so you don't have to worry about batteries. In theory, they promise significant cost savings in scenarios like rental apartment buildings where tenants move in and out, need access to common areas, lose keys, etc, without compromising security or having to replace or recode locks - they just give you a generic key, click some buttons in the admin panel, and your key could be provisioned accordingly once you first enter the building and interact with one of the "smarter" locks that are externally powered and networked to the mothership. In practice, in addition to the usual bugs you would expect from a software-based system managed and maintained by a plethora of organizations and contractors, they tend to become very annoying as parts wear out, so you have to fiddle with the key reinserting it repeatedly trying to find just the right angle so it will make a good contact to be recognized by the lock (for example the iLOQ system by my landlord communicates over a thin contact strip molded into the key opposite of the cutting and separated from the rest of the key with a thin layer of plastic).

georgefrowny 1y ago
Sounds about right for Abloy. They own Yale and their app-based alarm is subcontracted dogshit (by https://mobilepeople.dk https://mobilepeople.dk) that didn't get updated for years on end, logs you out constantly, has less functionally than a 90s keypad model and even the hub thing sometimes just falls over and needs a power cycle, etc etc etc. Presumably they are entirely unable to handle any of it in house and are at the mercy of the contractor to fix anything.

taneq 1y ago

What criminal mastermind could possibly defeat the DMCA? :D