4 ms·

The most interesting thing about Vancouver (disclosure: I grew up there) is not only the willingness to build density, but also the willingness to mix zones. D

The most interesting thing about Vancouver (disclosure: I grew up there) is not only the willingness to build density, but also the willingness to mix zones. Downtown Vancouver is the kind of place where you can find a surprisingly even mix of residential towers sharing space with commercial office buildings. You see this pattern in places like NYC, where many neighborhoods exist that are equal parts work and live. Compare with cities like Seattle or San Francisco, where there is an almost religious adherence to geographically segregating commercial developments from residential, and you can start explaining major quality of life issues.

dredmorbius 14y ago
San Francisco is starting to get away from this, particularly in the fringe / expansion areas of the CBD in the South of Market and Mid-Market areas. There's actually always been residential space close to downtown, but it's generally been either tremendously expensive (Telegraph Hill), or near-tenement conditions (Chinatown). Parking is extremely limited and expensive, if you do own a car. There's also an issue with out-of-town HNVIs purchasing condos in or near the CBD but spending very little time there (other major cosmopolitan metro areas have similar issues, notably London).
- tptacek 14y ago
  Telegraph Hill is a bit of a hike from downtown, isn't it? It's tough to get a shared metric here; San Francisco is small to start with, and "downtown" San Francisco is even smaller.
  - dredmorbius 14y ago
    Well, yes, if you consider 2-4 blocks to be a hike.
    - tptacek 14y ago
      Union to Geary? A mile to Embarcadero, ~mile to Transamerica Tower? I agree these are trivial distances and agree with the parent that SF has mixed commercial/residential.
  - malandrew 14y ago
    Everything in SF is trivially nearby if you go by bicycle. I myself commute from Nob Hill near the Fairmont (Clay/Mason) to where Telegraph Avenue intersects with the UC Berkeley campus. I only take the Bart from Embarcadero to West Oakland. My commute averages 40-60 minutes and the variability is 100% how long I have to wait for the train (longer wait times in the evening). If I had to commute within the 7x7 block that is SF, almost everything is within ~20 minutes of riding.
tptacek 14y ago
Chicago has a mix of residential and commercial as well; additionally, like NYC, Chicago has a couple very large universities that create multi-block clusters of student housing as well. We also have one of the country's better neighborhood "systems" (for lack of a better word). However, I'm not sure that I remember from my time in San Francisco that housing and offices were all that separate. I lived in SOMA for a couple years, and Noe Valley for a couple more; in SOMA, I was just a few blocks walking distance from Market & 4th-3rd. San Francisco is so small that maybe the cluster of dense offices is just a function of land scarcity.
drone 14y ago
You need to add a couple of other factors to mix-zoning (or no zoning) as well though. Houston, for example, is a no zoning city - you can buy a commercial warehouse and turn it into two lofts between two chemical plants if you like, and no one can stop you. (Effectively.) However, the abundance of inexpensive land means its cheaper to build "out and flat," than "in and up," and the rush inwards that has been occurring over the last handful of years (Midtown, Montrose, Heights, EaDo, etc.) has been countered by plenty of new subdivisions and an 18-lane freeway, along with plenty of 6-8 lane freeways. Then again, we have precious little public transportation, and any expansion is usually looked upon with disdain.

dredmorbius 14y ago

San Francisco is starting to get away from this, particularly in the fringe / expansion areas of the CBD in the South of Market and Mid-Market areas. There's actually always been residential space close to downtown, but it's generally been either tremendously expensive (Telegraph Hill), or near-tenement conditions (Chinatown). Parking is extremely limited and expensive, if you do own a car. There's also an issue with out-of-town HNVIs purchasing condos in or near the CBD but spending very little time there (other major cosmopolitan metro areas have similar issues, notably London).

tptacek 14y ago
Telegraph Hill is a bit of a hike from downtown, isn't it? It's tough to get a shared metric here; San Francisco is small to start with, and "downtown" San Francisco is even smaller.
- dredmorbius 14y ago
  Well, yes, if you consider 2-4 blocks to be a hike.
  - tptacek 14y ago
    Union to Geary? A mile to Embarcadero, ~mile to Transamerica Tower? I agree these are trivial distances and agree with the parent that SF has mixed commercial/residential.
- malandrew 14y ago
  Everything in SF is trivially nearby if you go by bicycle. I myself commute from Nob Hill near the Fairmont (Clay/Mason) to where Telegraph Avenue intersects with the UC Berkeley campus. I only take the Bart from Embarcadero to West Oakland. My commute averages 40-60 minutes and the variability is 100% how long I have to wait for the train (longer wait times in the evening). If I had to commute within the 7x7 block that is SF, almost everything is within ~20 minutes of riding.

tptacek 14y ago

Chicago has a mix of residential and commercial as well; additionally, like NYC, Chicago has a couple very large universities that create multi-block clusters of student housing as well. We also have one of the country's better neighborhood "systems" (for lack of a better word). However, I'm not sure that I remember from my time in San Francisco that housing and offices were all that separate. I lived in SOMA for a couple years, and Noe Valley for a couple more; in SOMA, I was just a few blocks walking distance from Market & 4th-3rd. San Francisco is so small that maybe the cluster of dense offices is just a function of land scarcity.

drone 14y ago

You need to add a couple of other factors to mix-zoning (or no zoning) as well though. Houston, for example, is a no zoning city - you can buy a commercial warehouse and turn it into two lofts between two chemical plants if you like, and no one can stop you. (Effectively.) However, the abundance of inexpensive land means its cheaper to build "out and flat," than "in and up," and the rush inwards that has been occurring over the last handful of years (Midtown, Montrose, Heights, EaDo, etc.) has been countered by plenty of new subdivisions and an 18-lane freeway, along with plenty of 6-8 lane freeways. Then again, we have precious little public transportation, and any expansion is usually looked upon with disdain.