5 ms·

If the two are indistinguishable from an outsider's perspective how would you know which one to trust?

by justbees 11mo ago

some_furry 11mo ago
This sounds like a job for cryptography! (No, it doesn't, actually.)
mannykannot 11mo ago
You can phrase the same question thus: which set of traits is more likely to lead a person to stay true to prior form in a crisis?
- some_furry 11mo ago
  The trouble is, you can think you're dealing with a Bob, but you're actually dealing with an Alice, even after enduring multiple crises that didn't trigger their specific type of badness. https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/jun/03/how-i-discovered-i-have-the-brain-of-a-psychopath https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/jun/03/how-i-... But as fun as this line of thinking is, my initial charitable post was only asking for a kind of "superficial" indistinguishability. As long as you don't think about it too hard, y'know?
  - shandor 11mo ago
    Which in the end is precisely the reason why we want to understand the intentions behind the actions, right?
    - some_furry 11mo ago
      Right. My stance on this is: Try to find a way to do good that doesn't make you miserable. Lying is to yourself is a form of oppression, and lying to others is a tactic for enduring oppression. (Ask a queer person about their time in the closet if you don't understand what I mean here.) Oppression makes you miserable, and misery tends to result in vapid thinkpieces that don't scratch below the surface of the referenced source material. But also: Be honest with yourself about what you want and why you want it. Whether for good or for ill. That way, at least you can have a modicum of peace. I wrote more about this train of thought recently, if anyone's curious: https://soatok.blog/2025/10/15/the-dreamseekers-vision-of-tomorrow/ https://soatok.blog/2025/10/15/the-dreamseekers-vision-of-to...
vacuity 11mo ago
Yes, then there is no way to elevate Bob above Alice, but in practice I think the assumption of external indistinguishability is too strong, and even the suspicion that Alice is sketchy (i.e. without hard proof) is meaningful.

If the two are indistinguishable from an outsider's perspective how would you know which one to trust?

This sounds like a job for cryptography! (No, it doesn't, actually.)

You can phrase the same question thus: which set of traits is more likely to lead a person to stay true to prior form in a crisis?

some_furry 11mo ago
The trouble is, you can think you're dealing with a Bob, but you're actually dealing with an Alice, even after enduring multiple crises that didn't trigger their specific type of badness. https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/jun/03/how-i-discovered-i-have-the-brain-of-a-psychopath https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/jun/03/how-i-... But as fun as this line of thinking is, my initial charitable post was only asking for a kind of "superficial" indistinguishability. As long as you don't think about it too hard, y'know?
- shandor 11mo ago
  Which in the end is precisely the reason why we want to understand the intentions behind the actions, right?
  - some_furry 11mo ago
    Right. My stance on this is: Try to find a way to do good that doesn't make you miserable. Lying is to yourself is a form of oppression, and lying to others is a tactic for enduring oppression. (Ask a queer person about their time in the closet if you don't understand what I mean here.) Oppression makes you miserable, and misery tends to result in vapid thinkpieces that don't scratch below the surface of the referenced source material. But also: Be honest with yourself about what you want and why you want it. Whether for good or for ill. That way, at least you can have a modicum of peace. I wrote more about this train of thought recently, if anyone's curious: https://soatok.blog/2025/10/15/the-dreamseekers-vision-of-tomorrow/ https://soatok.blog/2025/10/15/the-dreamseekers-vision-of-to...

vacuity 11mo ago

Yes, then there is no way to elevate Bob above Alice, but in practice I think the assumption of external indistinguishability is too strong, and even the suspicion that Alice is sketchy (i.e. without hard proof) is meaningful.