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The future is likely bifurcated trust: Official, encrypted, attested systems; and unofficial, unencrypted, unattested systems. The GNU freedoms never specified

The future is likely bifurcated trust: Official, encrypted, attested systems; and unofficial, unencrypted, unattested systems. The GNU freedoms never specified the right to run free software side by side with proprietary software on the same hardware; so the FSF should actually be fine with such an outcome.

lupire 1y ago
In fact FSF specifically exempts special purpose hardware like microwaves from its purview. The philosophy is targeted at software the user has a choice to install. If the hardware provider does not intend the user to choose to install an alternative version of the system software, software freedom doesn't come into play. https://www.fsf.org/campaigns/free-bios.html https://www.fsf.org/campaigns/free-bios.html
- fragmede 1y ago
  Which honestly I disagree with. Tivo didn't want you installing alternate OSes on their device and neither did Sony. Alternate OS support was eventually removed from the PS3. As to the microwave, you've not had any of them do anything annoying, like beep annoying at the wrong times, or wanted a button or override beeping in the middle of the night to not wake up other people? why can't I want to install an alternate firmware to my microwave or my TV. My soldering iron supports that.
zelphirkalt 1y ago
That seems to be either an oversimplified take on the FSF's position, or argument in bad faith. The FSF wants people to be able to run free software for all purposes, as they fight for user freedoms. If said free software cannot be used, because of all kinds of vendors limiting their services to proprietary software or platforms, then this should be a major concern to the FSF, because their advocated kind of software is being sabotaged.
iamnothere 1y ago
The problem with bifurcated trust is the ongoing efforts to force people into carrying a “trusted” pocket spy. Cashless payments, mobile train tickets, and digital ID are making it extremely difficult to live without a pocket spy in some places. If my bank requires me to use a phone for transfers (mine doesn’t), it might be acceptable to leave one in a desk drawer powered off as you would do with a hardware authentication token. It’s a special device for occasionally accessing a service. Fine. But when governments and industry collude to force citizens to carry these devices in order to live life normally, that’s not OK. My intent is to be as stubborn and obnoxious as possible in resisting this until they either give up and provide an alternate path or lock me away for noncompliance. Fortunately there is still an alternate path available for most things, primarily thanks to elders who have trouble with new tech. (Thank you elders!)
- gjsman-1000 1y ago
  Then get a law passed. Today. Or… acknowledge this is a fear of a future 30, 40, 50 years away that may never happen, which is never an argument. It’s like saying the government, because they have power, and the SCOTUS, because they have power, could decide to kill all children. Yes, they could. No, it’s absurd to let that power keep you up at night, or say the solution is to abolish their power.
  - iamnothere 1y ago
    > Then get a law passed. Today. Ha! Let me know how to achieve that and I will. I’ve advocated, donated, and volunteered for years on behalf of a number of causes, some with excellent organizations promoting them, and yet things continue to get worse. The only minor victories have been temporary delays of bad policy. No, the best response for the average citizen is stubborn noncompliance and constant passive resistance. Drag your feet until the whole thing comes crashing down. And encourage your friends to do it too! (But don’t stop trying through conventional politics, maybe one day it will work. Just don’t get your hopes up.)
    - gjsman-1000 1y ago

lupire 1y ago

In fact FSF specifically exempts special purpose hardware like microwaves from its purview. The philosophy is targeted at software the user has a choice to install. If the hardware provider does not intend the user to choose to install an alternative version of the system software, software freedom doesn't come into play. https://www.fsf.org/campaigns/free-bios.html https://www.fsf.org/campaigns/free-bios.html

fragmede 1y ago
Which honestly I disagree with. Tivo didn't want you installing alternate OSes on their device and neither did Sony. Alternate OS support was eventually removed from the PS3. As to the microwave, you've not had any of them do anything annoying, like beep annoying at the wrong times, or wanted a button or override beeping in the middle of the night to not wake up other people? why can't I want to install an alternate firmware to my microwave or my TV. My soldering iron supports that.

zelphirkalt 1y ago

That seems to be either an oversimplified take on the FSF's position, or argument in bad faith. The FSF wants people to be able to run free software for all purposes, as they fight for user freedoms. If said free software cannot be used, because of all kinds of vendors limiting their services to proprietary software or platforms, then this should be a major concern to the FSF, because their advocated kind of software is being sabotaged.

iamnothere 1y ago

The problem with bifurcated trust is the ongoing efforts to force people into carrying a “trusted” pocket spy. Cashless payments, mobile train tickets, and digital ID are making it extremely difficult to live without a pocket spy in some places. If my bank requires me to use a phone for transfers (mine doesn’t), it might be acceptable to leave one in a desk drawer powered off as you would do with a hardware authentication token. It’s a special device for occasionally accessing a service. Fine. But when governments and industry collude to force citizens to carry these devices in order to live life normally, that’s not OK. My intent is to be as stubborn and obnoxious as possible in resisting this until they either give up and provide an alternate path or lock me away for noncompliance. Fortunately there is still an alternate path available for most things, primarily thanks to elders who have trouble with new tech. (Thank you elders!)

gjsman-1000 1y ago
Then get a law passed. Today. Or… acknowledge this is a fear of a future 30, 40, 50 years away that may never happen, which is never an argument. It’s like saying the government, because they have power, and the SCOTUS, because they have power, could decide to kill all children. Yes, they could. No, it’s absurd to let that power keep you up at night, or say the solution is to abolish their power.
- iamnothere 1y ago
  > Then get a law passed. Today. Ha! Let me know how to achieve that and I will. I’ve advocated, donated, and volunteered for years on behalf of a number of causes, some with excellent organizations promoting them, and yet things continue to get worse. The only minor victories have been temporary delays of bad policy. No, the best response for the average citizen is stubborn noncompliance and constant passive resistance. Drag your feet until the whole thing comes crashing down. And encourage your friends to do it too! (But don’t stop trying through conventional politics, maybe one day it will work. Just don’t get your hopes up.)
  - gjsman-1000 1y ago