5 ms·

For the first time since the 1980's I'm not going to be running a PC with a Microsoft OS on anywhere (I dual boot my main desktop since I use it for work and ga

For the first time since the 1980's I'm not going to be running a PC with a Microsoft OS on anywhere (I dual boot my main desktop since I use it for work and gaming) but the Windows 11 install is getting binned. Tired of having to read release notes carefully and make sure I've done just the right things to stop it doing things I never asked it to do. Good job MS, you lost a customer who's never likely to come back. Been running windows/linux alongside each other since the late 90's and outside of gaming my computing life is linux (even my TV is connected to a fedora box) so not a hard switch.

teekert 1y ago
The value MS gains from milking to non technical people for all they’re worth outweighs the loss of the occasional tech savvy user. And sadly I think MS are still far from the tipping point and it will get worse and worse for some time to come. The only thing the non-techies have is the law to protect them.
- moi2388 1y ago
  I disagree. Tech people shape governmental IT policies. You already see some governments in the EU moving away from Microsoft. Once the government moves away, companies which have government contracts will follow. I think the dominoes are starting to fall.
  - anonymous908213 1y ago
    This is irrelevant to consumer adoption. The Chinese government uses their own Linux-based OS, which should be a common-sense national security policy, and it would certainly be a good idea for the rest of the world's governments to catch up and not rely on a US for-profit corporation. But even in China, 99% of regular people are using Windows. The dominoes really aren't going anywhere. The average consumer has an extremely high tolerance for security and privacy violations, which is why the state of the market is the way it is, completely dominated by companies that are the antithesis of security and privacy. If a service offers utility to them, nothing else matters. And Windows offers a tremendous amount of utility to the average consumer relative to Linux. The things the general public cares about are not the same things anyone who uses this website cares about.
    - avhception 1y ago
      While I think you're mostly right, I disagree with the "tremendous utility [...] relative to Linux". My relatives are certainly no users of this website, and yet they get all the utility they need out of Linux. They don't care about the OS, they mostly just want to use a browser and a few other tasks that work perfectly fine with their Debian installs.
    - drnick1 1y ago
      > The average consumer has an extremely high tolerance for security and privacy violations Absolutely, or Facebook/Instagram/Whatsapp and similar "apps" wouldn't be nearly as successful.
- franciscop 1y ago
  I've directly moved at least 3 people out of Windows, and indirectly I'd guess at least a dozen. If all of us techies did the same, it'd be over pretty soon.
  - noir_lord 1y ago
    I've no one left to convert, my mums been running Linux since ~2016 when I got tired of her breaking windows (and in fairness it was her doing it most of the time) so I switched her to mint. Her only requirement for her new computer is "it has to run that minty thing?" (it's actually running Fedora and has been for quite a while but that's the nice thing - she doesn't need to know or care) - it's still the same for her either way.
    - a456463 1y ago
      Same. My inlaws be rockin' ebay refurb lenovos with fedora for 6 years now
  - avhception 1y ago
    My score so far: 5 people directly, some ~40 workstations at my employer.
- juujian 1y ago
  They might be risking their quasi-monopoly/duopoly position. Probably not but before it was a 0% chance and now its nonzero.
  - noir_lord 1y ago
    I'm curious what they think the future looks like, Linux is growing on the desktop/laptop (in part driven by Valve/Steam), Users care less and less about PC's outside of the office generally - the primary computing device of most people is a phone not a PC doubly so if you exclude work - gaming has been a huge part of why many people still have PC's in the home and see above. Not sure what their actual moat is in preventing a slow bleed out from multiple factors over the long term. I think they'll hold businesses that are already on Windows for everything - like it/love it/loathe it Active Directory/Exchange etc do work for businesses but there has always been a halo effect from the same OS been used in the office as at work, i.e. people knew how to use word when they got into work because they'd used word at school (Chromebooks are very strong there) or home etc.
- nyrp 1y ago
  They're pissing off the non technical people now, though. We'll see how it all plays out in the next few years.
- robert-wallis 1y ago
  I remember Google being more popular with tech savvy users than Yahoo or Alta-Vista. IMO this is the writing on the wall.
simoncion 1y ago
> ...outside of gaming my computing life is linux... If you've games purchased through Steam, try running them on Linux with the officially-supported-and-written-for-Linux Steam client. Over the past decade+, a ton of work has been put into making games work fine under Wine and Valve's fork of Wine called Proton. I've found that nearly every game in my embarrassingly-large Steam library works fine on Linux.
- rpigab 1y ago
  Plus, Epic and Gog work through the third-party launcher "Heroic Game Launcher", for Ubisoft, EA and Blizzard, you can just install their launcher using Steam compatibility, or Lutris, then run games from it. The major hurdle is games plagued with Windows-only Kernel-level anti cheat software (mostly competitive multiplayer games): https://areweanticheatyet.com/ https://areweanticheatyet.com/
- drdec 1y ago
  > I've found that nearly every game in my embarrassingly-large Steam library works fine on Linux. I have on occasion been scared off of buying a package from Humble Bundle when the games are available on Steam but not explicitly marked as linux. (Some of the games are marked with linux and some are not.) Are you saying I am being unnecessarily cautious? For example, there is a "momcore" bundle at the moment where some games claim linux support and others do not, if you want to see what I'm talking about.
  - vitus 1y ago
    > Are you saying I am being unnecessarily cautious? Yes. If a game is marked with Linux, that means it has a native Linux port. However, Proton has gotten so good in recent years that some of the native Linux ports actually perform _worse_ than just downloading the Windows exe and running it with the compatibility layer. The investment in Proton makes sense in retrospect, since SteamOS is based on Arch Linux, and most of these games you mention should run just fine on a Steam Deck.
  - thesuitonym 1y ago
    You can still use Proton with games not purchased on Steam: https://www.reddit.com/r/linux_gaming/comments/pvzn03/running_nonsteam_games_using_proton/ https://www.reddit.com/r/linux_gaming/comments/pvzn03/runnin...
tonfreed 1y ago
I recently went back to full time Linux and the gaming aspect is fine with my RTX-3090. I don't really play anything like COD or Battlefield with all the invasive anticheat though, so your mileage may vary
- Forgeties79 1y ago
  Love bazzite on my 9070/9800x3d setup. Zero issues with a game yet. Played expedition 33 the day I built it a few months back!
  - noir_lord 1y ago
    Nice, I'm running a 7900XTX/7950X3D so I may give it a try - I don't game anything like as much as I used to though anyway so if the odd game did cause issues it's no biggie.
    - Forgeties79 1y ago
      It’s honestly been great. I forgot the exact terminal command but make sure to up your…zram I believe? To be half…? your total ram. Double check me on that. Whatever it is, out the box it starts at 4gb, which leads to this kind of weird issue where I would play a game, I would stop playing the game and close it, then I would return and it would only open a black screen and not actually open the game. I would have to restart the computer to get it to work. Once I upped that the problem went away immediately. Literally the only tweak I had to make, everything comes out the box basically ready to go
lostmsu 1y ago
I just nuked my home server Ubuntu and installed Windows. Canonical is still unable to make reliable TPM-unlocked full disk encryption, unacceptable for me as a data hoarder. https://bugs.launchpad.net/snapd/+bug/2045417 https://bugs.launchpad.net/snapd/+bug/2045417
- binkHN 1y ago
  Don't use Ubuntu?
  - lostmsu 1y ago
    That's exactly what I thought and acted.
- ezst 1y ago
  But somehow the malware infested/backdoored alternative has more appeal? Even more than the myriad of other distros, or DIY options for that matter? Doesn't click.
  - lostmsu 1y ago
    > myriad of other distros, or DIY options for that matter Have you ever seen a working configuration? The only other distro that advertises it out of the box is Fedora. And maybe it is better in this respect than Ubuntu, but I already wasted a few days dealing with the fallout, so maybe I'll try it next year. Manual - maybe. But is spending time learning yet another distro worth the Windows license? re: malware/backdoored I am not running self-wafered CPU, so backdoors at certain levels are outside of the threat model. If anything, Ubuntu was "malware" in the sense that it didn't work as advertised. https://documentation.ubuntu.com/core/how-to-guides/manage-ubuntu-core/use-a-recovery-mode/#using-recovery-keys https://documentation.ubuntu.com/core/how-to-guides/manage-u... > After entering a valid key, Ubuntu Core will decrypt the device, proceed with the boot, and restore the TPM from the recovered key. The recovery keys will remain the same and do not need to be retrieved again. The restore TPM bit just didn't happen.
    - 1y ago
jacquesm 1y ago
> but the Windows 11 install is getting binned That makes you the best MS customer: you paid and you are not costing them anything in support.
- cogman10 1y ago
  For now. That all changes when the OP buys another computer. There are plenty of vendors who will give you a OS less device and even a Linux device.
  - noir_lord 1y ago
    I self built my desktop as I have for decades, I've always bought MS licenses retail (since I could afford them, not so much as a kid..). So yeah, they got my money 3 and a bit years ago but that'll be the last money they get from me and obviously no future version of windows will. I simply no longer trust they are acting in my best interests as a consumer and I was already using Windows 11 as a glorified console OS to open steam.
- jonbiggums22 1y ago
  Based on how aggressive Microsoft is becoming with ads/upsells and data collection I think they'd still call it a loss. Do home users even use Microsoft support?
sleepybrett 1y ago
I always wonder just how much gaming has propped up and continues to prop up windows.
- deleted 1y ago
  [deleted]

teekert 1y ago

The value MS gains from milking to non technical people for all they’re worth outweighs the loss of the occasional tech savvy user. And sadly I think MS are still far from the tipping point and it will get worse and worse for some time to come. The only thing the non-techies have is the law to protect them.

moi2388 1y ago
I disagree. Tech people shape governmental IT policies. You already see some governments in the EU moving away from Microsoft. Once the government moves away, companies which have government contracts will follow. I think the dominoes are starting to fall.
- anonymous908213 1y ago
  This is irrelevant to consumer adoption. The Chinese government uses their own Linux-based OS, which should be a common-sense national security policy, and it would certainly be a good idea for the rest of the world's governments to catch up and not rely on a US for-profit corporation. But even in China, 99% of regular people are using Windows. The dominoes really aren't going anywhere. The average consumer has an extremely high tolerance for security and privacy violations, which is why the state of the market is the way it is, completely dominated by companies that are the antithesis of security and privacy. If a service offers utility to them, nothing else matters. And Windows offers a tremendous amount of utility to the average consumer relative to Linux. The things the general public cares about are not the same things anyone who uses this website cares about.
  - avhception 1y ago
    While I think you're mostly right, I disagree with the "tremendous utility [...] relative to Linux". My relatives are certainly no users of this website, and yet they get all the utility they need out of Linux. They don't care about the OS, they mostly just want to use a browser and a few other tasks that work perfectly fine with their Debian installs.
  - drnick1 1y ago
    > The average consumer has an extremely high tolerance for security and privacy violations Absolutely, or Facebook/Instagram/Whatsapp and similar "apps" wouldn't be nearly as successful.
franciscop 1y ago
I've directly moved at least 3 people out of Windows, and indirectly I'd guess at least a dozen. If all of us techies did the same, it'd be over pretty soon.
- noir_lord 1y ago
  I've no one left to convert, my mums been running Linux since ~2016 when I got tired of her breaking windows (and in fairness it was her doing it most of the time) so I switched her to mint. Her only requirement for her new computer is "it has to run that minty thing?" (it's actually running Fedora and has been for quite a while but that's the nice thing - she doesn't need to know or care) - it's still the same for her either way.
  - a456463 1y ago
    Same. My inlaws be rockin' ebay refurb lenovos with fedora for 6 years now
- avhception 1y ago
  My score so far: 5 people directly, some ~40 workstations at my employer.
juujian 1y ago
They might be risking their quasi-monopoly/duopoly position. Probably not but before it was a 0% chance and now its nonzero.
- noir_lord 1y ago
  I'm curious what they think the future looks like, Linux is growing on the desktop/laptop (in part driven by Valve/Steam), Users care less and less about PC's outside of the office generally - the primary computing device of most people is a phone not a PC doubly so if you exclude work - gaming has been a huge part of why many people still have PC's in the home and see above. Not sure what their actual moat is in preventing a slow bleed out from multiple factors over the long term. I think they'll hold businesses that are already on Windows for everything - like it/love it/loathe it Active Directory/Exchange etc do work for businesses but there has always been a halo effect from the same OS been used in the office as at work, i.e. people knew how to use word when they got into work because they'd used word at school (Chromebooks are very strong there) or home etc.
nyrp 1y ago
They're pissing off the non technical people now, though. We'll see how it all plays out in the next few years.
robert-wallis 1y ago
I remember Google being more popular with tech savvy users than Yahoo or Alta-Vista. IMO this is the writing on the wall.

simoncion 1y ago

> ...outside of gaming my computing life is linux... If you've games purchased through Steam, try running them on Linux with the officially-supported-and-written-for-Linux Steam client. Over the past decade+, a ton of work has been put into making games work fine under Wine and Valve's fork of Wine called Proton. I've found that nearly every game in my embarrassingly-large Steam library works fine on Linux.

rpigab 1y ago
Plus, Epic and Gog work through the third-party launcher "Heroic Game Launcher", for Ubisoft, EA and Blizzard, you can just install their launcher using Steam compatibility, or Lutris, then run games from it. The major hurdle is games plagued with Windows-only Kernel-level anti cheat software (mostly competitive multiplayer games): https://areweanticheatyet.com/ https://areweanticheatyet.com/
drdec 1y ago
> I've found that nearly every game in my embarrassingly-large Steam library works fine on Linux. I have on occasion been scared off of buying a package from Humble Bundle when the games are available on Steam but not explicitly marked as linux. (Some of the games are marked with linux and some are not.) Are you saying I am being unnecessarily cautious? For example, there is a "momcore" bundle at the moment where some games claim linux support and others do not, if you want to see what I'm talking about.
- vitus 1y ago
  > Are you saying I am being unnecessarily cautious? Yes. If a game is marked with Linux, that means it has a native Linux port. However, Proton has gotten so good in recent years that some of the native Linux ports actually perform _worse_ than just downloading the Windows exe and running it with the compatibility layer. The investment in Proton makes sense in retrospect, since SteamOS is based on Arch Linux, and most of these games you mention should run just fine on a Steam Deck.
- thesuitonym 1y ago
  You can still use Proton with games not purchased on Steam: https://www.reddit.com/r/linux_gaming/comments/pvzn03/running_nonsteam_games_using_proton/ https://www.reddit.com/r/linux_gaming/comments/pvzn03/runnin...

tonfreed 1y ago

I recently went back to full time Linux and the gaming aspect is fine with my RTX-3090. I don't really play anything like COD or Battlefield with all the invasive anticheat though, so your mileage may vary

Forgeties79 1y ago
Love bazzite on my 9070/9800x3d setup. Zero issues with a game yet. Played expedition 33 the day I built it a few months back!
- noir_lord 1y ago
  Nice, I'm running a 7900XTX/7950X3D so I may give it a try - I don't game anything like as much as I used to though anyway so if the odd game did cause issues it's no biggie.
  - Forgeties79 1y ago
    It’s honestly been great. I forgot the exact terminal command but make sure to up your…zram I believe? To be half…? your total ram. Double check me on that. Whatever it is, out the box it starts at 4gb, which leads to this kind of weird issue where I would play a game, I would stop playing the game and close it, then I would return and it would only open a black screen and not actually open the game. I would have to restart the computer to get it to work. Once I upped that the problem went away immediately. Literally the only tweak I had to make, everything comes out the box basically ready to go

lostmsu 1y ago

I just nuked my home server Ubuntu and installed Windows. Canonical is still unable to make reliable TPM-unlocked full disk encryption, unacceptable for me as a data hoarder. https://bugs.launchpad.net/snapd/+bug/2045417 https://bugs.launchpad.net/snapd/+bug/2045417

binkHN 1y ago
Don't use Ubuntu?
- lostmsu 1y ago
  That's exactly what I thought and acted.
ezst 1y ago
But somehow the malware infested/backdoored alternative has more appeal? Even more than the myriad of other distros, or DIY options for that matter? Doesn't click.
- lostmsu 1y ago
  > myriad of other distros, or DIY options for that matter Have you ever seen a working configuration? The only other distro that advertises it out of the box is Fedora. And maybe it is better in this respect than Ubuntu, but I already wasted a few days dealing with the fallout, so maybe I'll try it next year. Manual - maybe. But is spending time learning yet another distro worth the Windows license? re: malware/backdoored I am not running self-wafered CPU, so backdoors at certain levels are outside of the threat model. If anything, Ubuntu was "malware" in the sense that it didn't work as advertised. https://documentation.ubuntu.com/core/how-to-guides/manage-ubuntu-core/use-a-recovery-mode/#using-recovery-keys https://documentation.ubuntu.com/core/how-to-guides/manage-u... > After entering a valid key, Ubuntu Core will decrypt the device, proceed with the boot, and restore the TPM from the recovered key. The recovery keys will remain the same and do not need to be retrieved again. The restore TPM bit just didn't happen.
  - 1y ago

jacquesm 1y ago

> but the Windows 11 install is getting binned That makes you the best MS customer: you paid and you are not costing them anything in support.

cogman10 1y ago
For now. That all changes when the OP buys another computer. There are plenty of vendors who will give you a OS less device and even a Linux device.
- noir_lord 1y ago
  I self built my desktop as I have for decades, I've always bought MS licenses retail (since I could afford them, not so much as a kid..). So yeah, they got my money 3 and a bit years ago but that'll be the last money they get from me and obviously no future version of windows will. I simply no longer trust they are acting in my best interests as a consumer and I was already using Windows 11 as a glorified console OS to open steam.
jonbiggums22 1y ago
Based on how aggressive Microsoft is becoming with ads/upsells and data collection I think they'd still call it a loss. Do home users even use Microsoft support?

sleepybrett 1y ago

I always wonder just how much gaming has propped up and continues to prop up windows.

deleted 1y ago
[deleted]