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What do you think the process to check whether someone is an illegal immigrant is? It needs to leave a paper trail, and provide someone the opportunity to prove

What do you think the process to check whether someone is an illegal immigrant is? It needs to leave a paper trail, and provide someone the opportunity to prove that they're a citizen or here legally. Maybe a court case?

EagnaIonat 1y ago
That doesn't work in all cases. ESTA visa for example you give up the rights to due process if you overstay on that visa as part of the agreement to the visa. Doesn't justify anything that ICE are currently doing though.
- Jalad 1y ago
  Ironically the same argument applies
- tsimionescu 1y ago
  And what if someone claims you overstayed the visa, but you didn't? You still need a legal process to defend yourself from arbitrary accusations. Not having a process is not just morally wrong, it is also simply non-functional.
  - EagnaIonat 1y ago
    > And what if someone claims you overstayed the visa, but you didn't? It's just a simple matter of checking the ESTA details online, and your entry stamp in your passport. The ESTA visa states you waive your rights to a judge if you overstay. Like I said, I am not condoning what ICE is doing.
    - projectazorian 1y ago
      Most of the people the admin wants to remove are not eligible for ESTA in the first place.
NoMoreNicksLeft 1y ago
>It needs to leave a paper trail, and provide someone the opportunity to prove that they're a citizen or here legally. If you would read the articles where people are griping about this case or that case, none of these immigrants have contested it with a "but I'm a citizen". I suspect this is because they know that won't fly. For the amazingly few cases where a citizen is temporarily detained, many of those cases are leftists trying to jam ICE up by not making the claim and hoping they overstep. None of those that have made the news are cases where it goes to court because the detainee claims citizenship and ICE denies it.

EagnaIonat 1y ago

That doesn't work in all cases. ESTA visa for example you give up the rights to due process if you overstay on that visa as part of the agreement to the visa. Doesn't justify anything that ICE are currently doing though.

Jalad 1y ago
Ironically the same argument applies
tsimionescu 1y ago
And what if someone claims you overstayed the visa, but you didn't? You still need a legal process to defend yourself from arbitrary accusations. Not having a process is not just morally wrong, it is also simply non-functional.
- EagnaIonat 1y ago
  > And what if someone claims you overstayed the visa, but you didn't? It's just a simple matter of checking the ESTA details online, and your entry stamp in your passport. The ESTA visa states you waive your rights to a judge if you overstay. Like I said, I am not condoning what ICE is doing.
  - projectazorian 1y ago
    Most of the people the admin wants to remove are not eligible for ESTA in the first place.

NoMoreNicksLeft 1y ago

>It needs to leave a paper trail, and provide someone the opportunity to prove that they're a citizen or here legally. If you would read the articles where people are griping about this case or that case, none of these immigrants have contested it with a "but I'm a citizen". I suspect this is because they know that won't fly. For the amazingly few cases where a citizen is temporarily detained, many of those cases are leftists trying to jam ICE up by not making the claim and hoping they overstep. None of those that have made the news are cases where it goes to court because the detainee claims citizenship and ICE denies it.