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This is what happens in a FPTP two party system. If you don't like one party what other option do you have but to vote for the other party? So as a result it'

This is what happens in a FPTP two party system. If you don't like one party what other option do you have but to vote for the other party? So as a result it's enormously easy for radicals to take over a big tent party and still achieve remarkable support.

M95D 1y ago
Bernie was a 3rd option. Very few voted for him.
- marpstar 1y ago
  The enthusiasm around Bernie in 2016 was palpable. The DNC took it from him.
  - KerrAvon 1y ago
    This is true. Anecdata, but I talked to some of the “Republicans for Bernie” back then, and it was real, not astroturf. We’d be in a different place if Bernie had been the Dem candidate in 2016. I think it’s likely Bernie’s actual presidency would have been a major shitshow that made Jimmy Carter’s look pretty solid, but it would have relegated Trump to what he originally wanted to be, a fringe political figure grifting millions from gullible conservatives. (I also think Bernie could not have won in 2020.)
    - AnimalMuppet 1y ago
      But in that scenario, the Republicans would not have run Trump a second time (and maybe not even the first, because all the populist action would have gone to Bernie). So Bernie would lose in 2020 to a normal (that is, not populist) Republican.
- KerrAvon 1y ago
  Bernie was never a 3rd option, to be clear. He wasn’t running a Ross Perot-style third party campaign, he was running to be at the top of the Democratic ticket. And when the DNC cleared the way for Hillary, he was out of the game.
- tracker1 1y ago
  Bernie still runs/ran/supports the DNC umbrella... The socialists are embedded in the DNC, not a separate party. That said, most Libertarians are now under the RLC (Republican Libertarian Caucus) as disaffected neo-socialists have come into the separate party, and the Democrat party has become more Socialist itself. Also, Bernie should have one, but the DNC leadership absolutely cheats... this was incredibly apparent in 2016 and 2024. Talk about an oligarchy/autocracy...
  - nobody9999 1y ago
    >Also, Bernie should have one, but the DNC leadership absolutely cheats... this was incredibly apparent in 2016 and 2024. Talk about an oligarchy/autocracy... How, exactly? Clinton received 12% (55.2%-43.1%[0])/three million-plus more primary election votes than Sanders. And he only received that many because Clinton wasn't a great candidate, and more importantly, the decades-long campaign to smear her and her husband. What's that? 'Muh "superdelegates!"' Those actually didn't matter -- the actual votes by actual Democratic voters is what did it. What's more, even if Sanders had not lost by 12% and had become the Democratic nominee, the ads just write themselves: Pan in on Bernie Sanders saying "I am a proud Socialist!" with shimmering backgrounds of the Soviet and CCP flags and portraits of Stalin and Mao smiling down on him. "I'm Joe Stalin, and I approve this message!" Then video of Soviet/Chinese armies parading with tanks and all sorts of other "socialist" imagery. and on and on just like that, over and over. As such, Sanders would never have won the general election and it wouldn't have been nearly as close as the actual one. Go ahead. Call me a liar. But actual vote counts from actual elections have nothing to do with "superdelegates" or any of that. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_Democratic_Party_presidential_primaries https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_Democratic_Party_presiden... Edit: Added more detail to the imagined "campaign ad"; Fixed prose.

M95D 1y ago

Bernie was a 3rd option. Very few voted for him.

marpstar 1y ago
The enthusiasm around Bernie in 2016 was palpable. The DNC took it from him.
- KerrAvon 1y ago
  This is true. Anecdata, but I talked to some of the “Republicans for Bernie” back then, and it was real, not astroturf. We’d be in a different place if Bernie had been the Dem candidate in 2016. I think it’s likely Bernie’s actual presidency would have been a major shitshow that made Jimmy Carter’s look pretty solid, but it would have relegated Trump to what he originally wanted to be, a fringe political figure grifting millions from gullible conservatives. (I also think Bernie could not have won in 2020.)
  - AnimalMuppet 1y ago
    But in that scenario, the Republicans would not have run Trump a second time (and maybe not even the first, because all the populist action would have gone to Bernie). So Bernie would lose in 2020 to a normal (that is, not populist) Republican.
KerrAvon 1y ago
Bernie was never a 3rd option, to be clear. He wasn’t running a Ross Perot-style third party campaign, he was running to be at the top of the Democratic ticket. And when the DNC cleared the way for Hillary, he was out of the game.
tracker1 1y ago
Bernie still runs/ran/supports the DNC umbrella... The socialists are embedded in the DNC, not a separate party. That said, most Libertarians are now under the RLC (Republican Libertarian Caucus) as disaffected neo-socialists have come into the separate party, and the Democrat party has become more Socialist itself. Also, Bernie should have one, but the DNC leadership absolutely cheats... this was incredibly apparent in 2016 and 2024. Talk about an oligarchy/autocracy...
- nobody9999 1y ago
  >Also, Bernie should have one, but the DNC leadership absolutely cheats... this was incredibly apparent in 2016 and 2024. Talk about an oligarchy/autocracy... How, exactly? Clinton received 12% (55.2%-43.1%[0])/three million-plus more primary election votes than Sanders. And he only received that many because Clinton wasn't a great candidate, and more importantly, the decades-long campaign to smear her and her husband. What's that? 'Muh "superdelegates!"' Those actually didn't matter -- the actual votes by actual Democratic voters is what did it. What's more, even if Sanders had not lost by 12% and had become the Democratic nominee, the ads just write themselves: Pan in on Bernie Sanders saying "I am a proud Socialist!" with shimmering backgrounds of the Soviet and CCP flags and portraits of Stalin and Mao smiling down on him. "I'm Joe Stalin, and I approve this message!" Then video of Soviet/Chinese armies parading with tanks and all sorts of other "socialist" imagery. and on and on just like that, over and over. As such, Sanders would never have won the general election and it wouldn't have been nearly as close as the actual one. Go ahead. Call me a liar. But actual vote counts from actual elections have nothing to do with "superdelegates" or any of that. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_Democratic_Party_presidential_primaries https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_Democratic_Party_presiden... Edit: Added more detail to the imagined "campaign ad"; Fixed prose.