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> Is mass immigration really a crisis? Not even a little bit. No one is taking jobs away from citizens or legal immigrants (locals don't want those jobs, eith

by kelnos 1y ago

> Is mass immigration really a crisis? Not even a little bit. No one is taking jobs away from citizens or legal immigrants (locals don't want those jobs, either at all, or at the wages offered), rampant "migrant crime" is a myth created and perpetuated by the right (immigrants commit crime at lower rates than citizens), and to top it off, the American economy depends on many of these migrant workers in order to function (often in exploitative ways; explicitly allowing and supporting this type of migration would make things safer for everyone). It's othering and racism, plain and simple. I'm not saying we should just open the floodgates and let anyone and everyone in, and I'm not saying we shouldn't deport non-citizens who commit violent crime, but the "crisis" is entirely manufactured.

jonway 1y ago
>the "crisis" is entirely manufactured. It sure is, the US government has been underfunding the judicial body responsible for adjudicating asylum claims for years and years. As a result there are indeed people here in status limbo. Wether or not they should be granted some kind of residency is kind of irrelevant, politicians are happy for this to be a problem they can use. Even now, they aren’t increasing the rate of process, they’re just blowing the cash on mass surveillance.
- 20after4 1y ago
  And mass incarceration.
mixmastamyk 1y ago
Employed privilege. Lots of folks would like to work in construction but haven’t been able to for a while. I know several that retired early in poverty. I would appreciate a job in construction or at a restaurant for example. Teenagers would benefit from such jobs as well. Not available. Your absolute assertions are myopic at best.
- dashundchen 1y ago
  Who or what is stopping you from getting a job at a restaurant? Doesn't seem to be a problem with any motivated person I know.
  - mixmastamyk 1y ago
    Last one gave me a hint, too many applicants. Most don’t bother.
- FireBeyond 1y ago
  And yet multiple studies have shown that when jobs are offered to Americans that involve labor (farm, construction, food industry), at those wages, then there are generally few to near zero applicants. There are other reasonings (prevailing wage, location, etc.), but likewise, your "absolute assertion" that undocumented workers have been taking job opportunities from you is also not entirely ... absolute.
  - tsimionescu 1y ago
    The key point is "at those wages". The overall assumption in the economy is that it's good and proper for low-skilled jobs to be very low paying, despite otherwise being very unattractive. As long as people are unwilling to pay the proper cost for hard labor, they'll keep hitting this problem of local people not willing to do the work for a pittance. Then, when they circumvent the local workers, they'll be surprised that local workers are discontent.
    - FireBeyond 1y ago
      I do agree with that. The same as with the trope about McDonalds, etc. being "starter jobs" for teenagers, etc., and that's why it's okay for them to not pay a liveable wage, etc., which has no origin in fact (re the minimum wage law) and only in Republican ideology.
deleted 1y ago
[deleted]
tsimionescu 1y ago
I think the job analysis is overly simplistic. The reality is that worker migration from poorer countries to richer ones is a huge low wage problem. Instead of allowing low-skilled labor to pay better in order to attract workers who expect better conditions, you keep the wages fixed and import workers for whom even the bad life you're offering is better than their current life. Of course, this doesn't mean that allowing 0 immigration in is the right solution, or preventing immigrants from working. And I should also point out that, generally, US leaders have the least amount of problem with this aspect of immigration - even now, Trump has instructed ICE not to go for deporting agricultural and tourism workers in any mass numbers.
modo_mario 1y ago
> No one is taking jobs away from citizens or legal immigrants (locals don't want those jobs, either at all, or at the wages offered) Sorry but i absolutely despise this argument as someone who did the job that "locals don't want" and knew others that did. It's cheap and very right wing classism by the privileged. Essentially only the last bit is true and the last bit is true because there is a cheap alternative that doesn't involve much unionization either. Mind you I'm in western europe and the other arguments don't hold up either here but that first one is universally shit.

by kelnos 1y ago

jonway 1y ago

>the "crisis" is entirely manufactured. It sure is, the US government has been underfunding the judicial body responsible for adjudicating asylum claims for years and years. As a result there are indeed people here in status limbo. Wether or not they should be granted some kind of residency is kind of irrelevant, politicians are happy for this to be a problem they can use. Even now, they aren’t increasing the rate of process, they’re just blowing the cash on mass surveillance.

20after4 1y ago
And mass incarceration.

mixmastamyk 1y ago

Employed privilege. Lots of folks would like to work in construction but haven’t been able to for a while. I know several that retired early in poverty. I would appreciate a job in construction or at a restaurant for example. Teenagers would benefit from such jobs as well. Not available. Your absolute assertions are myopic at best.

dashundchen 1y ago
Who or what is stopping you from getting a job at a restaurant? Doesn't seem to be a problem with any motivated person I know.
- mixmastamyk 1y ago
  Last one gave me a hint, too many applicants. Most don’t bother.
FireBeyond 1y ago
And yet multiple studies have shown that when jobs are offered to Americans that involve labor (farm, construction, food industry), at those wages, then there are generally few to near zero applicants. There are other reasonings (prevailing wage, location, etc.), but likewise, your "absolute assertion" that undocumented workers have been taking job opportunities from you is also not entirely ... absolute.
- tsimionescu 1y ago
  The key point is "at those wages". The overall assumption in the economy is that it's good and proper for low-skilled jobs to be very low paying, despite otherwise being very unattractive. As long as people are unwilling to pay the proper cost for hard labor, they'll keep hitting this problem of local people not willing to do the work for a pittance. Then, when they circumvent the local workers, they'll be surprised that local workers are discontent.
  - FireBeyond 1y ago
    I do agree with that. The same as with the trope about McDonalds, etc. being "starter jobs" for teenagers, etc., and that's why it's okay for them to not pay a liveable wage, etc., which has no origin in fact (re the minimum wage law) and only in Republican ideology.

deleted 1y ago

[deleted]

tsimionescu 1y ago

I think the job analysis is overly simplistic. The reality is that worker migration from poorer countries to richer ones is a huge low wage problem. Instead of allowing low-skilled labor to pay better in order to attract workers who expect better conditions, you keep the wages fixed and import workers for whom even the bad life you're offering is better than their current life. Of course, this doesn't mean that allowing 0 immigration in is the right solution, or preventing immigrants from working. And I should also point out that, generally, US leaders have the least amount of problem with this aspect of immigration - even now, Trump has instructed ICE not to go for deporting agricultural and tourism workers in any mass numbers.

modo_mario 1y ago

> No one is taking jobs away from citizens or legal immigrants (locals don't want those jobs, either at all, or at the wages offered) Sorry but i absolutely despise this argument as someone who did the job that "locals don't want" and knew others that did. It's cheap and very right wing classism by the privileged. Essentially only the last bit is true and the last bit is true because there is a cheap alternative that doesn't involve much unionization either. Mind you I'm in western europe and the other arguments don't hold up either here but that first one is universally shit.