6 ms·

We actually don't know that there isn't a solution to gluttony, addiction, and other self-destructive and compulsive behaviors. The brain is somewhat stupid an

We actually don't know that there isn't a solution to gluttony, addiction, and other self-destructive and compulsive behaviors. The brain is somewhat stupid and can be tricked by very primitive things, like bright lights. We might also be able to un-trick it, maybe with medication. That's kind of what were seeing with GLP-1 agonists.

r14c 11mo ago
We know how to cure addiction though, and its really low tech. People (and rats) with adequate social lives and decent living conditions are able to consistently overcome addiction. In fact, addiction has come to be understood as a coping mechanism for living in an unpleasant environment. Imo the issue with phones is really a symptom of our lack of leisure time, pleasant outside settings, and affordable third places.
- actionfromafar 11mo ago
  It helps, but many prefer the phonecrack despite having access to all that.
  - array_key_first 11mo ago
    IMO it could be a matter of perspective. I think a lot of people turn to phonecrack instead of their social lives because they think phonecrack is their social lives. They've been told it's good, it's community, it's social. And maybe it was at one point. But it's not anymore. There are no social media sites left, only media sites.
- solumunus 11mo ago
  It’s very obviously not that simple.
  - chownie 11mo ago
    It seems that simple to me. Do you have a rationalisation for your disagreement, or is this a throw away comment you don't care about?
    - plastic3169 11mo ago
      There is a new book by Owen Flanagan ”What is it like to be an addict”[0] where he goes through the phenomenon of addiction from many different angles and argues that rat park type findings are true but only give partial view to the problem. His view is that it is very multifaceted subject and can’t be understood or tackled with any one easy fix. [0]https://academic.oup.com/book/59281 https://academic.oup.com/book/59281
      - r14c 11mo ago
        Idk what part of "make society affordable for everyone and ensure that everyone has access to adequate care and social support" sounds like an easy fix.
        plastic3169 11mo ago
        That’s a good goal and I think we should aim for that regardless if it fixes addiction. I would not call it easy though. And would it be world without addicts? There are plenty of well connected rich social happy folks who can’t handle simple molecules. Environment is part of the usage pattern but it’s not the only thing. That’s the books point I gather.
        chownie 11mo ago
        You have taken the point someone else made and run somewhere else with it, so I will reiterate it. > People (and rats) with adequate social lives and decent living conditions are able to consistently overcome addiction I don't think it's about riches, or power, or having friends. It is purely about how many stressors you have to deal with, how often and with how much reprieve you have available. More money can give more reprieve, it usually means more stressors too. The more subtle point I guess is that it is not how much you have, it is the shape of your life and how each day feels. Use the example of far northern countries. People who live in dark countries drink more, and they drink even more the darker it gets. The modern era says that the answer should be more mindfulness, more cognitive behavioural therapy, I think GP is saying we should be giving them sunlight which is clearly what they actually need. Substitute sunlight for whatever thing your locale is currently not managing well.
  - r14c 11mo ago
    It actually is, but creating these kinds of environments and promoting healthy social lives is extremely not profitable. We'd have to dramatically lower the cost of living for everyone and make huge investments in infrastructure and subsidize the creation of third places.
    - solumunus 11mo ago
      Ok I guess we’re hallucinating all the addicts who have/had those things. Mental health is never part of the problem either. Claiming the problem of addiction has zero nuance is one of the silliest takes I’ve ever read on here.
      - r14c 11mo ago
        Idk what part of "make society affordable for everyone and ensure that everyone has access to adequate care and social support" sounds like an easy or reductive fix. Maybe my use of the world "simple" is causing some hangups. This is obviously a prerequisite for curing addiction worldwide. Lacking support, care, and social ties is a strong indicator that an addict will relapse in any case. You can't even start treating the really pathological cases without a comprehensive healthy environment for everyone.
        solumunus 11mo ago
        The summation of the problem is reductive and your fix won’t fix it, although there’s no doubt it would help. No one is claiming your solution is bad, on the contrary it’s the best solution, but to claim it would completely eliminate addiction is preposterous.

r14c 11mo ago

We know how to cure addiction though, and its really low tech. People (and rats) with adequate social lives and decent living conditions are able to consistently overcome addiction. In fact, addiction has come to be understood as a coping mechanism for living in an unpleasant environment. Imo the issue with phones is really a symptom of our lack of leisure time, pleasant outside settings, and affordable third places.

actionfromafar 11mo ago
It helps, but many prefer the phonecrack despite having access to all that.
- array_key_first 11mo ago
  IMO it could be a matter of perspective. I think a lot of people turn to phonecrack instead of their social lives because they think phonecrack is their social lives. They've been told it's good, it's community, it's social. And maybe it was at one point. But it's not anymore. There are no social media sites left, only media sites.
solumunus 11mo ago
It’s very obviously not that simple.
- chownie 11mo ago
  It seems that simple to me. Do you have a rationalisation for your disagreement, or is this a throw away comment you don't care about?
  - plastic3169 11mo ago
    There is a new book by Owen Flanagan ”What is it like to be an addict”[0] where he goes through the phenomenon of addiction from many different angles and argues that rat park type findings are true but only give partial view to the problem. His view is that it is very multifaceted subject and can’t be understood or tackled with any one easy fix. [0]https://academic.oup.com/book/59281 https://academic.oup.com/book/59281
    - r14c 11mo ago
      Idk what part of "make society affordable for everyone and ensure that everyone has access to adequate care and social support" sounds like an easy fix.
      - plastic3169 11mo ago
        That’s a good goal and I think we should aim for that regardless if it fixes addiction. I would not call it easy though. And would it be world without addicts? There are plenty of well connected rich social happy folks who can’t handle simple molecules. Environment is part of the usage pattern but it’s not the only thing. That’s the books point I gather.
        chownie 11mo ago
        You have taken the point someone else made and run somewhere else with it, so I will reiterate it. > People (and rats) with adequate social lives and decent living conditions are able to consistently overcome addiction I don't think it's about riches, or power, or having friends. It is purely about how many stressors you have to deal with, how often and with how much reprieve you have available. More money can give more reprieve, it usually means more stressors too. The more subtle point I guess is that it is not how much you have, it is the shape of your life and how each day feels. Use the example of far northern countries. People who live in dark countries drink more, and they drink even more the darker it gets. The modern era says that the answer should be more mindfulness, more cognitive behavioural therapy, I think GP is saying we should be giving them sunlight which is clearly what they actually need. Substitute sunlight for whatever thing your locale is currently not managing well.
- r14c 11mo ago
  It actually is, but creating these kinds of environments and promoting healthy social lives is extremely not profitable. We'd have to dramatically lower the cost of living for everyone and make huge investments in infrastructure and subsidize the creation of third places.
  - solumunus 11mo ago
    Ok I guess we’re hallucinating all the addicts who have/had those things. Mental health is never part of the problem either. Claiming the problem of addiction has zero nuance is one of the silliest takes I’ve ever read on here.
    - r14c 11mo ago
      Idk what part of "make society affordable for everyone and ensure that everyone has access to adequate care and social support" sounds like an easy or reductive fix. Maybe my use of the world "simple" is causing some hangups. This is obviously a prerequisite for curing addiction worldwide. Lacking support, care, and social ties is a strong indicator that an addict will relapse in any case. You can't even start treating the really pathological cases without a comprehensive healthy environment for everyone.
      - solumunus 11mo ago
        The summation of the problem is reductive and your fix won’t fix it, although there’s no doubt it would help. No one is claiming your solution is bad, on the contrary it’s the best solution, but to claim it would completely eliminate addiction is preposterous.