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I love Rich Hickey’s talk “simple made easy” Which ironically is also why I wouldn’t touch clojure, because it’s the exact opposite of the message in his talk

• rhubarbtree 1y ago
  How so?
  • moi2388 1y ago
    Simple made easy talks about things which are “simple” as in not intertwined, vs “easy” (it works, but is tangled or intertwined). Clojure is intertwined with the JVM. Stack traces are half clojure, half Java. It is a perfect example of something which is “easy” but not “simple” according to his own definition.
    • rhubarbtree 1y ago
      Hmm, not really sure that’s what complecting is. I think the stack traces comment is fair, but not really about complecting. Complecting would be say if your source code had to be compiled at the same time as the JVM’s source code, and you put your type definitions inside the memory manager’s code. Otherwise I don’t have to think about the JVM memory manager to write a program (generally speaking).
      • moi2388 1y ago
        All classes in Java.lang are automatically imported. It’s not uncommon to see Java calls within clojure code. With aot it generates Java classes, calls those stubs and dispatches. Stack traces are half clojure, half Java. It’s not just clojure, I feel the same with for example F# which makes calls to C# entities. It might not be deal breaking for you. It’s also very pragmatic. However imo it does clearly violate the principles from his talk. They are intertwined. Easy, not simple by his own definition. Apart from that, very fun language though.