3 ms·

idk maybe google is somewhat responsible here? either their fraud-detection isn't working, or they're turning blind-eye here for profit?

by sysguest 11mo ago

Nextgrid 11mo ago
It's not actually the scammers that are redeeming the gift cards - instead they are in turn reselling the codes on marketplaces (to legitimate customers) for a small loss as a way of laundering them. From Google's perspective - someone bought a gift card in the US, and redeemed it somewhere else in the US, aka the expected behavior of legitimate gift card usage.
- HeatrayEnjoyer 11mo ago
  Google has enough metadata to graph and deduce which are scams.
  - sysguest 11mo ago
    this > From Google's perspective - someone bought a gift card in the US, and redeemed it somewhere else in the US hmm really? is this coming from a google PR firm or what? if that's the google's "perspective", unfortunately that means google is really technically inept or morally corrupt enough to watch a lot of people, including Americans, go thru the torture and being incinerated. if Google receives a lot of "I was scammed into this" from whoever bought the giftcard, doesn't google have the responsibility to ask the giftcard user where they got that redeem code from? At least warn them several times, and then cut those buyers too? that's the worst justification of a big corp imaginable -- I mean, that alone justifies a congressional hearing, and could mount to a deluge of negative media press: "how google has skin in the Cambodian scams"
    - Nextgrid 11mo ago
      > if Google receives a lot of "I was scammed into this" from whoever bought the giftcard Google doesn't sell the cards directly - at least not the ones purchased at the supermarket and used for scamming. There's a scummy industry of middlemen that handles this - that's why every store can sell basically every gift card; they don't have their PoS interact with every single vendor's API, they delegate to a middleman. So Google gets very limited data at purchase time, and is not technically the merchant selling the goods in this case. > doesn't google have the responsibility to ask the giftcard user where they got that redeem code from What will that change in practice? They have 2 options: either accept any answer, and nothing changes, or decline some answers, meaning either legitimate usage gets disrupted or the sites laundering the cards will just tell you the "right" answers to say. > At least warn them several times, and then cut those buyers too? Most buyers are one-time users; it's a relatively niche market. Mostly teens/etc who don't have their own payment card or are willing to go through the whole hassle for a small discount. As per the above, cutting people off would likely hinder legitimate usage. Ideally the whole "gift card" industry just goes away as there's no good reason to have it when we already have the ultimate form of "gift card" in the form of money... but until then, even if Google were to step out of the game someone else will step in (the company issuing the cards isn't directly involved, their gift card is just used as a negotiable instrument in lieu of cash during the scam transaction, so any company's will do). > has skin in the Cambodian scams Cambodia/etc is pig butchering/fake investment scams. Gift cards and redeeming is exclusively Indians targeting the US market (in the UK they have money mules to launder actual bank transfers, so no need for gift cards).
      - sysguest 11mo ago
        > Most buyers are one-time users well, even if they are, if google got scam-report, then isn't google obliged to start some investigation? are you ok with "well that's too bad you're scammed"? > Gift cards and redeeming is exclusively Indians targeting the US market (in the UK they have money mules to launder actual bank transfers, so no need for gift cards). well nope it's a thing everywhere -- even in some east-asian country, there's a public advertisement targeting convenient-store workers: "don't give google redeem code even if the person claims to work for the cvs chain" AND... > Google doesn't sell the cards directly - at least not the ones purchased at the supermarket and used for scamming. wow... ok so where does that "redeem card" come from? are you saying stores can generate those redeem codes? ...something doesn't seem right here...? > Ideally the whole "gift card" industry just goes away as there's no good reason to have it when we already have the ultimate form of "gift card" in the form of money... but until then, even if Google were to step out of the game someone else will step in (the company issuing the cards isn't directly involved, their gift card is just used as a negotiable instrument in lieu of cash during the scam transaction, so any company's will do). wtf is this... are we talking about some random mom&pop store-issued giftcards? is Google a mom&pop store? is the "google doing a giftcard biz" so valuable enough to license them turning blind-eye? > Cambodia/etc is pig butchering/fake investment scams cambodian operation is massive enough that it INCLUDES google-giftcard scheme. idk, all this adds up to one thing: google needs to replace whatever PR firm it's using
  - optimalsolver 11mo ago
    Seriously, when are people gonna stop giving these megacorporations the benefit of a doubt?
- ryandrake 11mo ago
  Gift cards are an idea whose time has passed. All they seem useful now is for scams and laundering money. All this plastic waste and fraud, so that a few legit customers can turn general-purpose money into company-specific money. Ridiculous product that should go away.
  - Nextgrid 11mo ago
    Absolutely agreed. But there’s a huge “legal” scam industry around it (essentially you are converting universal, fungible currency into scrip with an expiration date and strings attached), on top of which the illegal scam industry builds on (both sides benefit off each other, so the legal side has no interest in discontinuing operations or even measuring how much of their turnover is actually as a result of illegal dealings).
  - gruturo 11mo ago
    I use Steam gift cards to load my own Steam wallet, to avoid having Visa/Mastercard in the loop since they started dictating which games can be published and which can't.
  - viraptor 11mo ago
    Another use for the companies are the loyalty programs. I'm using the "buy for a discount from one company to use at another company" continuously for ongoing shopping.

idk maybe google is somewhat responsible here? either their fraud-detection isn't working, or they're turning blind-eye here for profit?

Nextgrid 11mo ago

It's not actually the scammers that are redeeming the gift cards - instead they are in turn reselling the codes on marketplaces (to legitimate customers) for a small loss as a way of laundering them. From Google's perspective - someone bought a gift card in the US, and redeemed it somewhere else in the US, aka the expected behavior of legitimate gift card usage.

HeatrayEnjoyer 11mo ago
Google has enough metadata to graph and deduce which are scams.
- sysguest 11mo ago
  this > From Google's perspective - someone bought a gift card in the US, and redeemed it somewhere else in the US hmm really? is this coming from a google PR firm or what? if that's the google's "perspective", unfortunately that means google is really technically inept or morally corrupt enough to watch a lot of people, including Americans, go thru the torture and being incinerated. if Google receives a lot of "I was scammed into this" from whoever bought the giftcard, doesn't google have the responsibility to ask the giftcard user where they got that redeem code from? At least warn them several times, and then cut those buyers too? that's the worst justification of a big corp imaginable -- I mean, that alone justifies a congressional hearing, and could mount to a deluge of negative media press: "how google has skin in the Cambodian scams"
  - Nextgrid 11mo ago
    > if Google receives a lot of "I was scammed into this" from whoever bought the giftcard Google doesn't sell the cards directly - at least not the ones purchased at the supermarket and used for scamming. There's a scummy industry of middlemen that handles this - that's why every store can sell basically every gift card; they don't have their PoS interact with every single vendor's API, they delegate to a middleman. So Google gets very limited data at purchase time, and is not technically the merchant selling the goods in this case. > doesn't google have the responsibility to ask the giftcard user where they got that redeem code from What will that change in practice? They have 2 options: either accept any answer, and nothing changes, or decline some answers, meaning either legitimate usage gets disrupted or the sites laundering the cards will just tell you the "right" answers to say. > At least warn them several times, and then cut those buyers too? Most buyers are one-time users; it's a relatively niche market. Mostly teens/etc who don't have their own payment card or are willing to go through the whole hassle for a small discount. As per the above, cutting people off would likely hinder legitimate usage. Ideally the whole "gift card" industry just goes away as there's no good reason to have it when we already have the ultimate form of "gift card" in the form of money... but until then, even if Google were to step out of the game someone else will step in (the company issuing the cards isn't directly involved, their gift card is just used as a negotiable instrument in lieu of cash during the scam transaction, so any company's will do). > has skin in the Cambodian scams Cambodia/etc is pig butchering/fake investment scams. Gift cards and redeeming is exclusively Indians targeting the US market (in the UK they have money mules to launder actual bank transfers, so no need for gift cards).
    - sysguest 11mo ago
      > Most buyers are one-time users well, even if they are, if google got scam-report, then isn't google obliged to start some investigation? are you ok with "well that's too bad you're scammed"? > Gift cards and redeeming is exclusively Indians targeting the US market (in the UK they have money mules to launder actual bank transfers, so no need for gift cards). well nope it's a thing everywhere -- even in some east-asian country, there's a public advertisement targeting convenient-store workers: "don't give google redeem code even if the person claims to work for the cvs chain" AND... > Google doesn't sell the cards directly - at least not the ones purchased at the supermarket and used for scamming. wow... ok so where does that "redeem card" come from? are you saying stores can generate those redeem codes? ...something doesn't seem right here...? > Ideally the whole "gift card" industry just goes away as there's no good reason to have it when we already have the ultimate form of "gift card" in the form of money... but until then, even if Google were to step out of the game someone else will step in (the company issuing the cards isn't directly involved, their gift card is just used as a negotiable instrument in lieu of cash during the scam transaction, so any company's will do). wtf is this... are we talking about some random mom&pop store-issued giftcards? is Google a mom&pop store? is the "google doing a giftcard biz" so valuable enough to license them turning blind-eye? > Cambodia/etc is pig butchering/fake investment scams cambodian operation is massive enough that it INCLUDES google-giftcard scheme. idk, all this adds up to one thing: google needs to replace whatever PR firm it's using
- optimalsolver 11mo ago
  Seriously, when are people gonna stop giving these megacorporations the benefit of a doubt?
ryandrake 11mo ago
Gift cards are an idea whose time has passed. All they seem useful now is for scams and laundering money. All this plastic waste and fraud, so that a few legit customers can turn general-purpose money into company-specific money. Ridiculous product that should go away.
- Nextgrid 11mo ago
  Absolutely agreed. But there’s a huge “legal” scam industry around it (essentially you are converting universal, fungible currency into scrip with an expiration date and strings attached), on top of which the illegal scam industry builds on (both sides benefit off each other, so the legal side has no interest in discontinuing operations or even measuring how much of their turnover is actually as a result of illegal dealings).
- gruturo 11mo ago
  I use Steam gift cards to load my own Steam wallet, to avoid having Visa/Mastercard in the loop since they started dictating which games can be published and which can't.
- viraptor 11mo ago
  Another use for the companies are the loyalty programs. I'm using the "buy for a discount from one company to use at another company" continuously for ongoing shopping.