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CATL is just dumping
by nextworddev 11mo ago
CATL is just dumping
- nharada 11mo agoWhat makes you say that? I don’t know this space very well
- nextworddev 11mo agoDumping batteries is yet another strategy to take control of global energy infrastructure and destabilize petrodollar
- nharada 11mo agoOh yeah I get what you’re saying but is that a thing? Like CATL has had lines before that aren’t making a profit?
- Qwertious 11mo agoIt's not a thing; people are just stuck in the 2000s and think that China can't beat the West technologically and therefore must be cheating.
- deleted 11mo ago[deleted]
- nextworddev 11mo agoThey have decent technology (which they stole a decent chunk) and cheat at the same time.. nothing to do with the west feeling insecurity. In fact, the west could benefit from some mobilizing around insecurity
- tooltalk 11mo ago> people are just stuck in the 2000s and think that China can't beat the West technologically and therefore must be cheating. We are talking since early 2010 and on. And it's pretty much what everyone says they are: China has been breaking every trade/IP laws/agreements -- forced IP transfer/IP theft, ban foreign competition, illegal state subsidies to overcapacity, etc to get to where they are in the EV battery market.
- bryanlarsen 11mo agoCATL had a profit of $2.6B last quarter on sales of $15B. That indicates they're pricing well above cost rather than below it.
- tooltalk 11mo agodumping doesn't depend on profit or loss. Also the legal definition of dumping is less-than-the-"normal value." (see Article VI ANTI-DUMPING AND COUNTERVAILING DUTIES of GATT 1994). But then China is a non-market-economy, so none of these rules apply in a hypothetical anti-dumping case -- ie, China's local price, or "normal value" doesn't matter.
- bryanlarsen 11mo agoA normal value for a highly competitive commodity part like a battery is about 3% above cost. CATL charges over 20% above cost. So you might have an argument that CATL has monopoly pricing power and is gouging its customers. IOW that they're illegally charging too much, not that they are illegally charging too little.
- tooltalk 11mo agoSure, that's not what a normal value is. As explained, the price level or the cost of manufacture in China, the exporting country, is completely irrelevant as their local price/cost of manufacturer is artificially propped up by illegal state subsidies or other anti-market tactics to cripple foreign competition past 15 years. Again, China is a non-market-economy. In those cases, trade regulators can use "undistorted" prices without gov't interference or use a market price in a similarly situated 3rd country as benchmark.
- bryanlarsen 11mo agoIf that's your definition of a non-market economy, then no Western economy is either.