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A slight left-field suggestion, but have you tried asking this 'competent jerk' if he wants to go for a coffee (or pint, depending on your culture)? He might j

by jmkni 1y ago

A slight left-field suggestion, but have you tried asking this 'competent jerk' if he wants to go for a coffee (or pint, depending on your culture)? He might just not be aware he's being a jerk, have you tried having a casual, non-confrontational chat with him and raising your concerns? ie "I respect you as an engineer but you can be difficult to work with sometimes" Maybe he just isn't aware? Sometimes you just need to communicate more and build alliances

throwaway290 1y ago
This 100x. But it's not for everyone. If like me you are not good at social stuff it is hard to just get on this casual level and say "so what's been going on? those deadlines amirite?" to who you think is your enemy but it can lead to very nice results and +100 social XP Maybe it turns out he is nice and all you need is to treat him so like he feels he's respected by you. Give him important jobs etc. It's easier after you go for drink/coffee and become a bit more chill with each other. And if he fails on something sensitive that you gave him then you don't have to struggle for proof to management that he sucks But maybe BE prepared to confront if he starts it? Maybe it's just me but it's dreadful if you bring it up and this guy shoots you down with some snark and you freeze out of surprise and lose the meeting. I would if you are value to company and he is really being an outright asshole on this meeting be prepared to say "look if you're not gonna genuinely cooperate as your lead I'll officially file a complaint/recommend to boot you from this team/whatever" and leave. Be prepared to talk over your manager to his manager. Get your drink in takeaway cup Document this guy's sabotages with a summary of what harm it did? I hate politics
- jmkni 1y ago
  If it goes that way, the other advice in this thread is valid. But at least try the non-confrontational 'lets have a coffee' approach first, especially if OP is their superior (which by the other comments, OP is).
  - throwaway290 1y ago
    Totally I edited it to say that first. Also, it feels like that guy is defensive and feeling butthurt. So op can try pretend he's awesome and give him all the difficult tasks to prove. If he fails you know what to do. If he is good then less work for you. As the lead you don't need to be always the rockstar, the coolest managers are the ones create chance for teammates to be rockstars. (I had bad leads where it just felt like what is the point for me existing here as a code monkey if this guy sorted it all. Tho I would never sabotage it. I just quit;))
- karlitooo 1y ago
  I've had mixed success with this. It works when you have a nice person going through a tough time in their life who doesn't realise they are reacting badly to everything. I don't think that applies here because this person seems to believe their rudeness is justifiable. A habit of being an asshole is not cost effective to fix. And giving validation to their belief that they should have "important jobs" just gives them real power to bully you more. Instead of rewarding bad behaviour, they need an unambiguous dressing down from someone they respect, and a PIP. But IME it's a waste of time, rip the bandaid off and get someone with better default settings.
  - throwaway290 1y ago
    > And giving validation to their belief that they should have "important jobs" just gives them real power to bully you more. I think this guy's manager said he won't fire or move him. So then if to avoid sabotage you must respect him and give him important tasks then that's what you do. Even if you think it harms the company. Then you show how it harm the company and you win.
29athrowaway 1y ago
The guy clearly is an underperformer that knows he cannot win through merit and instead wants to win by playing dirty. Do not reward aggression towards you with attention and empathy. You have to stay away from such people. The guy is likely someone with behavioral issues, bad personality traits and the undermining/sabotage could be a sign of a low skill workplace psychopath trying to manipulate and create a psychopathic fiction. You are not a therapist and it is not your job to fix that person. When fire has nothing else to burn it consumes itself. Just don't add more fuel to the fire. Don't let that person be in your head, drain your energy. Do not ruminate about interactions with this person. Practice mental hygiene and focus on what's important: collaboration, your actual job, your goals, your friends and family, or something you can contribute in any way...
- cwmoore 1y ago
  “Do not reward aggression towards you with attention and empathy.” Source? I really dislike this style of framing.
  - 29athrowaway 1y ago
    Why would you let yourself be drained of your energy by someone who is determined to undermine your role and create a precedent that you can be disrespected without consequences? Not only having to tolerate the person but giving them your time and attention? Using your energy that would otherwise be meant to do your job efficiently, advance your career and meet expectations outside of work with your family and friends, etc. If someone wants to play a different game, let them play alone. It must be clear that the game is collaborating towards a common goal, and if you want to play a different one then you will be playing alone. We are a band, we are all playing an instrument for the same song requested by a customer, and if you want to play another song I won't start playing the notes of your song that nobody requested. You can be kind to others, but you also have to be kind to yourself, your employer, and have respect for your profession and the sacrifice others have made to help you attain the position you have.
    - theultdev 1y ago
golly_ned 1y ago
We are remote. He’s been told at least a few times. I can do this over 1:1 over remote, but it definitely doesn’t feel the same. We have a team onsite in a few weeks. I could do it then. I still think it’s more likely than not that things will go sour, especially since the rest of the team will actually be there, and I’ll be letting him know a lot of the team has had issues with him. The rest of the team is extremely passive and conflict-averse. It’ll be awkward then. I can try a remote 1:1 since I think there are more ways to keep a cap on this. The very fact that I have to tiptoe around this makes me realize this guy is super volatile and angry. Even reducing our 1:1 cadence, which I did for all team members simply due to too much meeting load on me, led him to cancel them altogether.
- HellDunkel 1y ago
  Keep calm. You have time and the team on your side, if not management. Don’t let hin drag you down, he will only continue to sabotage himself. All you need to do is mitigate risk and update management on his misdoings.

by jmkni 1y ago

throwaway290 1y ago

This 100x. But it's not for everyone. If like me you are not good at social stuff it is hard to just get on this casual level and say "so what's been going on? those deadlines amirite?" to who you think is your enemy but it can lead to very nice results and +100 social XP Maybe it turns out he is nice and all you need is to treat him so like he feels he's respected by you. Give him important jobs etc. It's easier after you go for drink/coffee and become a bit more chill with each other. And if he fails on something sensitive that you gave him then you don't have to struggle for proof to management that he sucks But maybe BE prepared to confront if he starts it? Maybe it's just me but it's dreadful if you bring it up and this guy shoots you down with some snark and you freeze out of surprise and lose the meeting. I would if you are value to company and he is really being an outright asshole on this meeting be prepared to say "look if you're not gonna genuinely cooperate as your lead I'll officially file a complaint/recommend to boot you from this team/whatever" and leave. Be prepared to talk over your manager to his manager. Get your drink in takeaway cup Document this guy's sabotages with a summary of what harm it did? I hate politics

jmkni 1y ago
If it goes that way, the other advice in this thread is valid. But at least try the non-confrontational 'lets have a coffee' approach first, especially if OP is their superior (which by the other comments, OP is).
- throwaway290 1y ago
  Totally I edited it to say that first. Also, it feels like that guy is defensive and feeling butthurt. So op can try pretend he's awesome and give him all the difficult tasks to prove. If he fails you know what to do. If he is good then less work for you. As the lead you don't need to be always the rockstar, the coolest managers are the ones create chance for teammates to be rockstars. (I had bad leads where it just felt like what is the point for me existing here as a code monkey if this guy sorted it all. Tho I would never sabotage it. I just quit;))
karlitooo 1y ago
I've had mixed success with this. It works when you have a nice person going through a tough time in their life who doesn't realise they are reacting badly to everything. I don't think that applies here because this person seems to believe their rudeness is justifiable. A habit of being an asshole is not cost effective to fix. And giving validation to their belief that they should have "important jobs" just gives them real power to bully you more. Instead of rewarding bad behaviour, they need an unambiguous dressing down from someone they respect, and a PIP. But IME it's a waste of time, rip the bandaid off and get someone with better default settings.
- throwaway290 1y ago
  > And giving validation to their belief that they should have "important jobs" just gives them real power to bully you more. I think this guy's manager said he won't fire or move him. So then if to avoid sabotage you must respect him and give him important tasks then that's what you do. Even if you think it harms the company. Then you show how it harm the company and you win.

29athrowaway 1y ago

The guy clearly is an underperformer that knows he cannot win through merit and instead wants to win by playing dirty. Do not reward aggression towards you with attention and empathy. You have to stay away from such people. The guy is likely someone with behavioral issues, bad personality traits and the undermining/sabotage could be a sign of a low skill workplace psychopath trying to manipulate and create a psychopathic fiction. You are not a therapist and it is not your job to fix that person. When fire has nothing else to burn it consumes itself. Just don't add more fuel to the fire. Don't let that person be in your head, drain your energy. Do not ruminate about interactions with this person. Practice mental hygiene and focus on what's important: collaboration, your actual job, your goals, your friends and family, or something you can contribute in any way...

cwmoore 1y ago
“Do not reward aggression towards you with attention and empathy.” Source? I really dislike this style of framing.
- 29athrowaway 1y ago
  Why would you let yourself be drained of your energy by someone who is determined to undermine your role and create a precedent that you can be disrespected without consequences? Not only having to tolerate the person but giving them your time and attention? Using your energy that would otherwise be meant to do your job efficiently, advance your career and meet expectations outside of work with your family and friends, etc. If someone wants to play a different game, let them play alone. It must be clear that the game is collaborating towards a common goal, and if you want to play a different one then you will be playing alone. We are a band, we are all playing an instrument for the same song requested by a customer, and if you want to play another song I won't start playing the notes of your song that nobody requested. You can be kind to others, but you also have to be kind to yourself, your employer, and have respect for your profession and the sacrifice others have made to help you attain the position you have.
  - theultdev 1y ago

golly_ned 1y ago

We are remote. He’s been told at least a few times. I can do this over 1:1 over remote, but it definitely doesn’t feel the same. We have a team onsite in a few weeks. I could do it then. I still think it’s more likely than not that things will go sour, especially since the rest of the team will actually be there, and I’ll be letting him know a lot of the team has had issues with him. The rest of the team is extremely passive and conflict-averse. It’ll be awkward then. I can try a remote 1:1 since I think there are more ways to keep a cap on this. The very fact that I have to tiptoe around this makes me realize this guy is super volatile and angry. Even reducing our 1:1 cadence, which I did for all team members simply due to too much meeting load on me, led him to cancel them altogether.

HellDunkel 1y ago
Keep calm. You have time and the team on your side, if not management. Don’t let hin drag you down, he will only continue to sabotage himself. All you need to do is mitigate risk and update management on his misdoings.