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In what universe is that "not a big deal?" That makes an entire country a no-go zone. Worse if it's an offense they could reasonably extradite for. I don't int

In what universe is that "not a big deal?" That makes an entire country a no-go zone. Worse if it's an offense they could reasonably extradite for. I don't intend to ever travel to Russia or North Korea, but that's not some trivial anecdote about modern life, those are regimes so hostile to rule of law and individual safety that it's not reasonable to travel there. What if there's a conference you want to go to, but it's in the UK? Or you have friends you want to visit? Or family, or whatever. That's also an egregious degradation of the UK's position with regard to Western-norms around personal liberties, which itself is worthy of remark.

mantas 1y ago
Some people have friends/family/etc in Russia too yet it does not make it less of a shitty country. Here in Lithuania we there’s at least one or two sob stories every year about somebody visiting relatives in (bela)rus and ending up in prison there. I’m more afraid that anglosphere is showing the way for the rest of west-y world. Looking at chat control stuff and all that jazz, it’s matter of time same stuff becomes a thing in the rest „free“ world.
iamnothere 1y ago
> those are regimes so hostile to rule of law and individual safety that it's not reasonable to travel there And now the UK joins the ranks as well. I should add that the US is also a member of this club if you’re foreign or you appear to be foreign, we are no paragon of virtue either.
- jodrellblank 1y ago
  The uk is “so hostile to the rule of law and individual safety that it’s not reasonable to travel there” because … if you break the UK’s laws they might arrest you? Is this a Poe’s Law comment?
  - iamnothere 1y ago
    Vietnam has extremely strict laws about drugs, but they have the good sense to limit the applicability of those laws to Vietnamese soil. I have no problem traveling to Vietnam just because I might have once smoked a doobie in the US, because Vietnam also has no problem with that. While on VN soil, respect VN laws. Fine by me. The UK on the other hand seems to have forgotten this basic, common approach to international relations and criminal jurisdiction, so if you work on any foreign technology or content that could be targeted by the UK government, it’s better to stay away. (Yes I am aware that the US also doesn’t obey this principle, but that doesn’t make it right.)
    - arlcode 1y ago
      I (a layman) believe that part of the "global" scope of the law is to enable actions at home (and some pressure). If they want to order ISPs to block services there needs to be some legal framework to do so. "We contacted them, they didn't respond, now we need to revert to blocking" sounds pretty convincing to me. For your other argument I'll ask the question I ask anytime this comes up: How would you propose laws/regulations on online services are enforced if not (at least in principle) globally?
      - iamnothere 1y ago
        Order local ISPs to block the site, forbid companies and/or individuals with local presence from doing business with the site, or I dunno, maybe require everyone in the country to install an MITM cert like some backwater autocracy. Not really my problem how you want to run your own country. No country should have the right to enforce laws globally.
        doublerabbit 1y ago
        Most UK domestic ISP's are part of the IWF (Internet Watch Foundation) where your net passes through a transparent squid proxy. [0] As well as "family friendly filters" that block rouge sites via their own DNS. [0] https://www.blocked.org.uk/about https://www.blocked.org.uk/about And if you're a person of interest your connection is routes through GCHQ Cheltenham. So it wouldn't be to hard for Ofcom to apply a filter. If they did expect domestic ISPs will comply but hopefully independent ISPs won't.
betaby 1y ago
> That makes an entire country a no-go zone. There are plenty of countries like that. > but it's in the UK? Or you have friends you want to visit? Or family, or whatever. Then yes, if on a individual level that affects you, you have to be careful. Like citizens of China or Russia, or Saudi Arabia. Welcome to the club, UK, I guess?

mantas 1y ago

Some people have friends/family/etc in Russia too yet it does not make it less of a shitty country. Here in Lithuania we there’s at least one or two sob stories every year about somebody visiting relatives in (bela)rus and ending up in prison there. I’m more afraid that anglosphere is showing the way for the rest of west-y world. Looking at chat control stuff and all that jazz, it’s matter of time same stuff becomes a thing in the rest „free“ world.

iamnothere 1y ago

> those are regimes so hostile to rule of law and individual safety that it's not reasonable to travel there And now the UK joins the ranks as well. I should add that the US is also a member of this club if you’re foreign or you appear to be foreign, we are no paragon of virtue either.

jodrellblank 1y ago
The uk is “so hostile to the rule of law and individual safety that it’s not reasonable to travel there” because … if you break the UK’s laws they might arrest you? Is this a Poe’s Law comment?
- iamnothere 1y ago
  Vietnam has extremely strict laws about drugs, but they have the good sense to limit the applicability of those laws to Vietnamese soil. I have no problem traveling to Vietnam just because I might have once smoked a doobie in the US, because Vietnam also has no problem with that. While on VN soil, respect VN laws. Fine by me. The UK on the other hand seems to have forgotten this basic, common approach to international relations and criminal jurisdiction, so if you work on any foreign technology or content that could be targeted by the UK government, it’s better to stay away. (Yes I am aware that the US also doesn’t obey this principle, but that doesn’t make it right.)
  - arlcode 1y ago
    I (a layman) believe that part of the "global" scope of the law is to enable actions at home (and some pressure). If they want to order ISPs to block services there needs to be some legal framework to do so. "We contacted them, they didn't respond, now we need to revert to blocking" sounds pretty convincing to me. For your other argument I'll ask the question I ask anytime this comes up: How would you propose laws/regulations on online services are enforced if not (at least in principle) globally?
    - iamnothere 1y ago
      Order local ISPs to block the site, forbid companies and/or individuals with local presence from doing business with the site, or I dunno, maybe require everyone in the country to install an MITM cert like some backwater autocracy. Not really my problem how you want to run your own country. No country should have the right to enforce laws globally.
      - doublerabbit 1y ago
        Most UK domestic ISP's are part of the IWF (Internet Watch Foundation) where your net passes through a transparent squid proxy. [0] As well as "family friendly filters" that block rouge sites via their own DNS. [0] https://www.blocked.org.uk/about https://www.blocked.org.uk/about And if you're a person of interest your connection is routes through GCHQ Cheltenham. So it wouldn't be to hard for Ofcom to apply a filter. If they did expect domestic ISPs will comply but hopefully independent ISPs won't.

betaby 1y ago

> That makes an entire country a no-go zone. There are plenty of countries like that. > but it's in the UK? Or you have friends you want to visit? Or family, or whatever. Then yes, if on a individual level that affects you, you have to be careful. Like citizens of China or Russia, or Saudi Arabia. Welcome to the club, UK, I guess?