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> The Nazis made the same choice in WWII and even though they were able to control the Baltics and had Finland as an ally never seriously threatened to take the

> The Nazis made the same choice in WWII and even though they were able to control the Baltics and had Finland as an ally never seriously threatened to take the city. There was an 18 month siege of SP during WWII. SP starved and people there resorted to cannibalism to survive. I don't remember if it was ever taken but the Germans definitely tried to. And the situation there was ghoulish, so even if they didn't, they almost did.

cryptonector 1y ago
SP was never taken by the axis.
- lostlogin 1y ago
  Never taken, but it was a city in the Axis alliance while Russian and Germany carved up Poland.
  - cryptonector 1y ago
    I know no one who considers the USSR to have been an Axis power between the start of the war and Operation Barbarossa.
    - lostlogin 1y ago
      You're correct and I'm wrong. Germany started negotiating Russia joining but this seems to have been disingenuous from Germany and part of the lead in to the attack on Russia. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German–Soviet_Axis_talks https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German–Soviet_Axis_talks
      - cryptonector 1y ago
        It's more complicated than that. Go have a listen of the Mannerheim tape with Hitler. Hitler basically confesses to Mannerheim that Stalin was blackmailing Hitler with oil and that this was the casus belli for Hitler, but then Hitler had no idea of Stalin's tank manufacturing prowess and he says that if he had known he wouldn't have invaded Russia. Super interesting. You get the impression that though Hitler hated Russia and Russians, it was events that led to Barbarossa rather than Hitler's long-term plan -- things got away from his control real quick.
        cryptonector 1y ago
        On the other hand, read https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German%E2%80%93Soviet_Axis_talks https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German%E2%80%93Soviet_Axis_tal... I wonder just how explicit Stalin's oil blackmail was.

cryptonector 1y ago

SP was never taken by the axis.

lostlogin 1y ago
Never taken, but it was a city in the Axis alliance while Russian and Germany carved up Poland.
- cryptonector 1y ago
  I know no one who considers the USSR to have been an Axis power between the start of the war and Operation Barbarossa.
  - lostlogin 1y ago
    You're correct and I'm wrong. Germany started negotiating Russia joining but this seems to have been disingenuous from Germany and part of the lead in to the attack on Russia. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German–Soviet_Axis_talks https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German–Soviet_Axis_talks
    - cryptonector 1y ago
      It's more complicated than that. Go have a listen of the Mannerheim tape with Hitler. Hitler basically confesses to Mannerheim that Stalin was blackmailing Hitler with oil and that this was the casus belli for Hitler, but then Hitler had no idea of Stalin's tank manufacturing prowess and he says that if he had known he wouldn't have invaded Russia. Super interesting. You get the impression that though Hitler hated Russia and Russians, it was events that led to Barbarossa rather than Hitler's long-term plan -- things got away from his control real quick.
      - cryptonector 1y ago
        On the other hand, read https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German%E2%80%93Soviet_Axis_talks https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German%E2%80%93Soviet_Axis_tal... I wonder just how explicit Stalin's oil blackmail was.