4 ms·

What an own goal by Microsoft.

locusofself 1y ago
So I work at Microsoft and will admit that the company has had many Own-goals over the years, but think about it this way. Apple provides software updates for a given model of mac for 7-8 years on average. Windows 10 came out more than 20 years ago. How long should they put resources into it?
- windows_hater_7 1y ago
  Must be insider information. I thought Windows 10 came out 10 years ago.
- vasachi 1y ago
  First, they released it only 10 years ago, and second, Microsoft marketed it as the last windows version. So yes, this is a own goal)
  - wongogue 1y ago
    They never did that. It was an offhand comment by a developer which was picked up by the media.
    - Mountain_Skies 1y ago
      Picked up by the media and Microsoft did absolutely nothing to correct until they decided they wanted to create Windows 11. They were completely aware of what was in the press and if the media message was "Microsoft says switch to Linux" they absolutely would have corrected the message. That they let this misconception to become as widespread as it did shows they were happy for people to believe it. That makes them absolutely 100% responsible for it.
    - jack_tripper 1y ago
      Why let facts in the conversation when we can have FUD dominate it?
- grugagag 1y ago
  Windows 10 didnt come 20 years ago. You work for Microsoft and didnt know this? Win 10 was released in 2015 fyi
- usui 1y ago
  Three other comments are dunking on the OP writing "Windows 10 came out more than 20 years ago". It's probably a typo for "10 years ago" and OP is comparing it by saying Apple does 7-8 years.
- geor9e 1y ago
  >Windows 10 came out more than X years ago. You're framing this completely wrong. I have a gaming PC that runs Elden Ring, but it lacks TPM 2.0, Secure Boot, and the right generation of CPU from Intel or AMD. So Windows 11 literally cannot be legitimately installed. And now, Windows 10 is being purposely left with security holes. Microsoft is dictating that an Elden Ring‑capable gaming PC belongs in a landfill. Does that not sound absolutely ludicrous to you? Microsoft is free to obliterate its compatibility and shun its customer base if it wants to. That's its right. But whoever has convinced you that TPM 2.0 is so important that millions of gaming PCs should be turned into zombie‑virus‑infested abandonware—sorry, I just do not sympathize. The fact that there’s a third‑party hack to flip the bit that requires TPM 2.0 just proves that Microsoft could fix this situation with no effort whatsoever.
  - jack_tripper 1y ago
    >You're framing this completely wrong. Why? Old Mac hardware are also powerful enough to run Apple's latest OS, yet they won't bother backporting it. You have to throw away your Intel Macs. Same for ChromeOS hardware.
    - geor9e 1y ago
      I mean, you're right, but Microsoft's planned obsolescence here is a shorter cadence than Apple's. All the newest Mac hardware that came out in 2018 still gets security updates to this day. But there's plenty of brand-new Windows hardware that came out in 2021, which now must be thrown away because it didn't qualify for a future operating system they had planned. So we can gripe about it for the next three years before "what about Apple" becomes totally valid. Still feels messed up that the global monopoly holder for PCs decided e-wasting a billion of them would fly under the radar. Hopefully most people realize they can download a little bit flip hack to undo Microsofts check.
      - jack_tripper 1y ago
        >All the newest Mac hardware that came out in 2018 still gets security updates to this day. Yeah but that's because Apple also made the HW and sold it to you directly so they're responsible for both SW and HW. Microsoft did not make or sell you the HW in most cases, they sold you an OS (unless you bought a prebuilt with an Windows OEM license, in which case Dell/Lenovo/etc is responsible). I'm not excusing Microsoft's behavior, I'm just saying why they're not comparable to the way Apple does it. >But there's plenty of brand-new Windows hardware that came out in 2021 Like which?
- chairmansteve 1y ago
  The problem for me is the 11 interface is rubbish. It seems badly designed and unfinished. Everything was just shuffled around with no thought to usability. There is a limit to the number of icons on the start menu. The taskbar works differently in arbitrary ways and has less features than 10.
- sylos 1y ago
  Are you ai? Windows 10 is a decade old.
exitb 1y ago
What’s a one paragraph explanation of why 11 is considered so much worse than 10 for someone who didn’t use Windows since 7?
- throwaway48476 1y ago
  The start menu is now written in Javascript and horrifically slow.
  - wongogue 1y ago
    To clarify: Not that it is any better — The recommended section which serves OneDrive files is a ReactNative component.
  - kristianp 1y ago
    The start menu is already slow in Windows 10. I don't think that's new to Win 11.
  - commandersaki 1y ago
    Not sure if this is /s or real.
- gostsamo 1y ago
  Copilot, ads, shit, copilot, telemetry, forced MS accounts, copilot, forced ms edge, copilot, forced obsolescence, copilot. I might be missing some other stuff like copilot and clean of shit versions like ltsc, but those are on the top of my head.
- jdsully 1y ago
  One word: Ads
- eastbound 1y ago
  Microsoft promised 10 was the last.
  - tonyedgecombe 1y ago
dehrmann 1y ago
If I were CEO, I'd notice that smart phones, tables, Chromebooks, and a more successful Apple have shifted the market. Windows is only 10% of revenue, so I'm not about to throw it away, but it's declining, and it's my focus. I'd let the engineers do the big breaking change that they've been clamoring for and make sure a key goal is cost savings from dropping legacy platforms. This sets up Windows to go into maintenance mode in 2035.

So I work at Microsoft and will admit that the company has had many Own-goals over the years, but think about it this way. Apple provides software updates for a given model of mac for 7-8 years on average. Windows 10 came out more than 20 years ago. How long should they put resources into it?

windows_hater_7 1y ago
Must be insider information. I thought Windows 10 came out 10 years ago.
vasachi 1y ago
First, they released it only 10 years ago, and second, Microsoft marketed it as the last windows version. So yes, this is a own goal)
- wongogue 1y ago
  They never did that. It was an offhand comment by a developer which was picked up by the media.
  - Mountain_Skies 1y ago
    Picked up by the media and Microsoft did absolutely nothing to correct until they decided they wanted to create Windows 11. They were completely aware of what was in the press and if the media message was "Microsoft says switch to Linux" they absolutely would have corrected the message. That they let this misconception to become as widespread as it did shows they were happy for people to believe it. That makes them absolutely 100% responsible for it.
  - jack_tripper 1y ago
    Why let facts in the conversation when we can have FUD dominate it?
grugagag 1y ago
Windows 10 didnt come 20 years ago. You work for Microsoft and didnt know this? Win 10 was released in 2015 fyi
usui 1y ago
Three other comments are dunking on the OP writing "Windows 10 came out more than 20 years ago". It's probably a typo for "10 years ago" and OP is comparing it by saying Apple does 7-8 years.
geor9e 1y ago
>Windows 10 came out more than X years ago. You're framing this completely wrong. I have a gaming PC that runs Elden Ring, but it lacks TPM 2.0, Secure Boot, and the right generation of CPU from Intel or AMD. So Windows 11 literally cannot be legitimately installed. And now, Windows 10 is being purposely left with security holes. Microsoft is dictating that an Elden Ring‑capable gaming PC belongs in a landfill. Does that not sound absolutely ludicrous to you? Microsoft is free to obliterate its compatibility and shun its customer base if it wants to. That's its right. But whoever has convinced you that TPM 2.0 is so important that millions of gaming PCs should be turned into zombie‑virus‑infested abandonware—sorry, I just do not sympathize. The fact that there’s a third‑party hack to flip the bit that requires TPM 2.0 just proves that Microsoft could fix this situation with no effort whatsoever.
- jack_tripper 1y ago
  >You're framing this completely wrong. Why? Old Mac hardware are also powerful enough to run Apple's latest OS, yet they won't bother backporting it. You have to throw away your Intel Macs. Same for ChromeOS hardware.
  - geor9e 1y ago
    I mean, you're right, but Microsoft's planned obsolescence here is a shorter cadence than Apple's. All the newest Mac hardware that came out in 2018 still gets security updates to this day. But there's plenty of brand-new Windows hardware that came out in 2021, which now must be thrown away because it didn't qualify for a future operating system they had planned. So we can gripe about it for the next three years before "what about Apple" becomes totally valid. Still feels messed up that the global monopoly holder for PCs decided e-wasting a billion of them would fly under the radar. Hopefully most people realize they can download a little bit flip hack to undo Microsofts check.
    - jack_tripper 1y ago
      >All the newest Mac hardware that came out in 2018 still gets security updates to this day. Yeah but that's because Apple also made the HW and sold it to you directly so they're responsible for both SW and HW. Microsoft did not make or sell you the HW in most cases, they sold you an OS (unless you bought a prebuilt with an Windows OEM license, in which case Dell/Lenovo/etc is responsible). I'm not excusing Microsoft's behavior, I'm just saying why they're not comparable to the way Apple does it. >But there's plenty of brand-new Windows hardware that came out in 2021 Like which?
chairmansteve 1y ago
The problem for me is the 11 interface is rubbish. It seems badly designed and unfinished. Everything was just shuffled around with no thought to usability. There is a limit to the number of icons on the start menu. The taskbar works differently in arbitrary ways and has less features than 10.
sylos 1y ago
Are you ai? Windows 10 is a decade old.

exitb 1y ago

What’s a one paragraph explanation of why 11 is considered so much worse than 10 for someone who didn’t use Windows since 7?

throwaway48476 1y ago
The start menu is now written in Javascript and horrifically slow.
- wongogue 1y ago
  To clarify: Not that it is any better — The recommended section which serves OneDrive files is a ReactNative component.
- kristianp 1y ago
  The start menu is already slow in Windows 10. I don't think that's new to Win 11.
- commandersaki 1y ago
  Not sure if this is /s or real.
gostsamo 1y ago
Copilot, ads, shit, copilot, telemetry, forced MS accounts, copilot, forced ms edge, copilot, forced obsolescence, copilot. I might be missing some other stuff like copilot and clean of shit versions like ltsc, but those are on the top of my head.
jdsully 1y ago
One word: Ads
eastbound 1y ago
Microsoft promised 10 was the last.
- tonyedgecombe 1y ago

dehrmann 1y ago

If I were CEO, I'd notice that smart phones, tables, Chromebooks, and a more successful Apple have shifted the market. Windows is only 10% of revenue, so I'm not about to throw it away, but it's declining, and it's my focus. I'd let the engineers do the big breaking change that they've been clamoring for and make sure a key goal is cost savings from dropping legacy platforms. This sets up Windows to go into maintenance mode in 2035.