3 ms·

> I can't not wonder if it would be less time & energy consuming if they did it more politely? This is an interesting question that comes up from time to time

by hypfer 1y ago

> I can't not wonder if it would be less time & energy consuming if they did it more politely? This is an interesting question that comes up from time to time and it's actually not as it seems. While it is work and taxing at all, the whole act of explaining is actually not very expensive. In fact, it is simply tapping into the stream of consciousness and piping it into a text input. What _would_ be expensive actions would be to: a) _not_ explain, see that something isn't quite right and then try to handle the internal discomfort sparking from that. b) mask and play a different "more polite" role, which actually just means "accepting the unsolicited emotional offloading and the task of handling those attached to it" both being "providing a service" to the random person that just approached me, and operating in a style that is unnatural to me. This is counterintuitive for the vast majority of people, because for them it works exactly the other way round. Doing this emotional labor for free would also be just giving away the thing that makes me money. Specifically, being able to understand technical details and also communicating those to people that won't necessarily do. Effectively, the free-plan includes technical support but not emotional consulting. This, for some, is hard to understand, for others, it is hard to accept. And, of course, it always gets worse when social media (like HN) is involved, because these machines erase any context and replace it with violently jamming in defaults + rewarding those that dunk the hardest and make the in-group of the mob feel pleasant feelings.

necovek 1y ago
I get you, and I can understand how emotionally taxing it is to not do anything and "keep it in" (should have said this, could have done that, why are they not reading simple instructions... — I've spent one too many sleepless nights mostly when I wasn't behaving as myself but rather adapting to social expectation). So I think you are completely right to set the boundaries you want to set, but perhaps you can recruit someone else in the community who doesn't get so annoyed at people not respecting others' time, because let's be honest, that's what people do (mostly because it usually works due to the social norms being what they are). It is why some people are unapproachable and build boundaries (eg. imagine even executive assistants to executives in order to not divide their attention on every little thing).
- hypfer 1y ago
  > but perhaps you can recruit someone else in the community who doesn't get so annoyed at people not respecting others' time No, I can't. The world, in this aspect, is wrong. It is flawed. Rotten, even. I (and actually we) cannot approach this by just accommodating what is broken. Everyone has been doing that and you can see what damage this has done to democracy and to reality itself. As the docs state, Valetudo is counter-culture. The definition of being that is that you will hear a steady stream of loud screaming, because culture is being countered. If this stream stops, that means that the countering also stopped. I do not think that we can afford to let the world deteriorate even further than it has already. We need to re-learn context. No matter how painful that might turn out. I know HN is the last place for this :D But I also didn't ask to be linked here. I did however ask to not be posted here anymore. I also believe that Valetudo is a unique opportunity for this, because no one is being held at gunpoint and forced to use it, nor will anyone die because they can't use it. But, at the same time, it is highly-polished software that just works and offers massive amounts of value for free. You only pay with accepting that context exists and that other humans exist. > It is why some people are unapproachable and build boundaries This is precisely what I am doing. I would argue thought that the "unapproachable" really depends on where one is coming from.
  - necovek 1y ago
    We are getting philosophical, but I wouldn't say the "world is wrong": the world simply is. Yes, people engage on a topic they have spent few thoughts on. But let's be honest, many who have spent many thoughts on something do not really come up with some genuinely interesting insight either. Thus I have doubts that humans as a whole can "re-learn context", and even those who can, will usually not invest enough in the topic the other side might care about. I applaud you for your desire to "fix the world", but over time, I've learned to accept it for what it is, and I don't feel the same annoyance you seem to when I am being misunderstood even when I state things plainly (I am mostly — I admit — smugly amused, except when it's the person who can directly affect my life). Anyway, as long as you are not overly frustrated, keep doing what you are doing (which sounds like building great free software for de-clouding robot vacuums), and fighting the fights that matter to you!
deepscanner 1y ago
There was a guy who not only didn't need your help. He came nicely and politely talking to you about a idea for future updates and has done all the technical investigation to check how the feature is and how it could be implemented. You banned him without even acknowledging him. Also, Opnsense, home assistant, the homelab community, the dozen of thousand of docker maintainers, they ALL either support directly the people using their software or at least do not try to hinder the community efforts to build their own self help spaces. Which you tried to do with Reddit. People have simply asked a simple question yet you banned them directly, as if they are asking you directly, they didn't DM you directly and they asked the group telegram that you said they will find help in, yet you want to be the one leading the conversation and not let anyone ask questions and have other people helping them. Just the moment you were writing this comment on, you were clearly irritated and banned people from Telegram for asking mundane questions just because you were in a bad mood. Also, and the final thing that leaves no doubt, purging the whole github issue backlog was just demonic. There was literally no gain from this beside some sadistic privilege of showing who's boss.
- deleted 1y ago
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by hypfer 1y ago

necovek 1y ago

I get you, and I can understand how emotionally taxing it is to not do anything and "keep it in" (should have said this, could have done that, why are they not reading simple instructions... — I've spent one too many sleepless nights mostly when I wasn't behaving as myself but rather adapting to social expectation). So I think you are completely right to set the boundaries you want to set, but perhaps you can recruit someone else in the community who doesn't get so annoyed at people not respecting others' time, because let's be honest, that's what people do (mostly because it usually works due to the social norms being what they are). It is why some people are unapproachable and build boundaries (eg. imagine even executive assistants to executives in order to not divide their attention on every little thing).

hypfer 1y ago
> but perhaps you can recruit someone else in the community who doesn't get so annoyed at people not respecting others' time No, I can't. The world, in this aspect, is wrong. It is flawed. Rotten, even. I (and actually we) cannot approach this by just accommodating what is broken. Everyone has been doing that and you can see what damage this has done to democracy and to reality itself. As the docs state, Valetudo is counter-culture. The definition of being that is that you will hear a steady stream of loud screaming, because culture is being countered. If this stream stops, that means that the countering also stopped. I do not think that we can afford to let the world deteriorate even further than it has already. We need to re-learn context. No matter how painful that might turn out. I know HN is the last place for this :D But I also didn't ask to be linked here. I did however ask to not be posted here anymore. I also believe that Valetudo is a unique opportunity for this, because no one is being held at gunpoint and forced to use it, nor will anyone die because they can't use it. But, at the same time, it is highly-polished software that just works and offers massive amounts of value for free. You only pay with accepting that context exists and that other humans exist. > It is why some people are unapproachable and build boundaries This is precisely what I am doing. I would argue thought that the "unapproachable" really depends on where one is coming from.
- necovek 1y ago
  We are getting philosophical, but I wouldn't say the "world is wrong": the world simply is. Yes, people engage on a topic they have spent few thoughts on. But let's be honest, many who have spent many thoughts on something do not really come up with some genuinely interesting insight either. Thus I have doubts that humans as a whole can "re-learn context", and even those who can, will usually not invest enough in the topic the other side might care about. I applaud you for your desire to "fix the world", but over time, I've learned to accept it for what it is, and I don't feel the same annoyance you seem to when I am being misunderstood even when I state things plainly (I am mostly — I admit — smugly amused, except when it's the person who can directly affect my life). Anyway, as long as you are not overly frustrated, keep doing what you are doing (which sounds like building great free software for de-clouding robot vacuums), and fighting the fights that matter to you!

deepscanner 1y ago

There was a guy who not only didn't need your help. He came nicely and politely talking to you about a idea for future updates and has done all the technical investigation to check how the feature is and how it could be implemented. You banned him without even acknowledging him. Also, Opnsense, home assistant, the homelab community, the dozen of thousand of docker maintainers, they ALL either support directly the people using their software or at least do not try to hinder the community efforts to build their own self help spaces. Which you tried to do with Reddit. People have simply asked a simple question yet you banned them directly, as if they are asking you directly, they didn't DM you directly and they asked the group telegram that you said they will find help in, yet you want to be the one leading the conversation and not let anyone ask questions and have other people helping them. Just the moment you were writing this comment on, you were clearly irritated and banned people from Telegram for asking mundane questions just because you were in a bad mood. Also, and the final thing that leaves no doubt, purging the whole github issue backlog was just demonic. There was literally no gain from this beside some sadistic privilege of showing who's boss.

deleted 1y ago
[deleted]