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Iommi – your first pick for a Django power chord
- ranger_danger 1y agoguitar pick, (Tony) Iommi... I get it.
- runep 1y agoTony Iommi almost quit playing when he lost two of his fingertips in a workplace accident, but was convinced that he could learn to play with the remaining stumps after listening to Django Reinhardt who also lost the use of two of his fingers, but adapted his playing style.
- boxed 1y agoPlus most of iommi is written while listening to Heaven & Hell and Mob Rules on repeat :P
- lapcat 1y agoIt seems of questionable legality to blatantly use his name for your product.
- cluckindan 1y agoTrademarks only apply within an industry.
- lapcat 1y agoI didn't say it's trademark violation. A person's name is not a trademark. It's about using someone's name to promote a product that the person is not associated with in any way. Iommi is not the name of a band. The band's name is Black Sabbath. Tony Iommi is the name of a person, the guitar player of Black Sabbath.
- cluckindan 1y agoThe project isn’t named tonyiommi, though. Iommi is the name of Tony Iommi’s solo music project, though.
- boxed 1y agoHmm, I don't think that's correct. The single "Gone" has written "IOMMI" on it, but I think that's a design flourish mostly. There is an artist named "IOMMI" on Spotify though: https://open.spotify.com/artist/7H9kxQfhfZ0kJ7IOD3CTAP?si=l9x42j99Q3ma7zQPDVV1gQ https://open.spotify.com/artist/7H9kxQfhfZ0kJ7IOD3CTAP?si=l9...
- mwbeatty 1y agoYou mean like Django?
- lapcat 1y agoAlready addressed in another comment: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45758830 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45758830
- boxed 1y agoI mean.. there are a lot of people with that name, and it's an homage.
- lapcat 1y ago> I mean.. there are a lot of people with that name What are you saying here? You already admitted publicy that it was about Tony Iommi the guitarist of Black Sabbath and not anyone else with the name. > it's an homage Which of course directly contradicts the first clause of your sentence.
- boxed 1y agoMaybe I'm confused. Which law would you presume was violated? Did Django violate the same law when it was named Django? Did Python violate that same law?
- lapcat 1y agoThe issue is that Tony Iommi is a live person, so using his name can give the impression that he endorses or is in some way associated with the product. Django Reinhardt died in 1953 and thus cannot endorse a product 50 years later. Monty Python is not a person.
- boxed 1y agoMonty Python was at the time a group of people (seems worse than a single person), and afaik also a trademark (also seems worse). But yea, maybe Python made a legal gamble that just happened to work out. I am not a lawyer :shrug:
- ofrzeta 1y agoI don't think anyone is under the impression that Tony Iommi is promoting a web framework.
- lapcat 1y ago
- glouwbug 1y agoDjango also missed a couple fingers ;)
- est 1y agowhat's the techstack for Iommi? Bootstrap with XHR?
- boxed 1y agoDjango backend. By default bootstrap as CSS framework but we ship with finished implementations for many more. Dynamic behavior is mostly limited to pagination and filtering on tables, which is just some plain JS with fetch(). Oh, and foreign key/m2m backed fields in forms/filtering is backed by select2 in ajax mode.
- boxed 1y agoMore information and back story can be found on my blog: https://kodare.net/tags.html#iommi https://kodare.net/tags.html#iommi We've worked on this since 2014.
- graemep 1y agoThat is impressive. It feels like an entire framework with a lot more functionality and has a lot of things I have been wishomg Django had. Very few dependencies outside testing. I like that. I was surprised flask is one though. I am thinking about using it for some sections (a management/dashboard bit, and probably the admin) of a site, the rest of which is plain Django. Are there likely to be any problems doing that?
- boxed 1y agoHmm.. flask shouldn't be a dependency. I tried to get iommi to work on flask/sqlalchemy many years ago, but that's somewhat abondoned... > I am thinking about using it for some sections (a management/dashboard bit, and probably the admin) of a site, the rest of which is plain Django. Are there likely to be any problems doing that? Incremental adoption and mix-and-match is also a fundamental design goal so that should work fine.
- graemep 1y ago> Incremental adoption and mix-and-match is also a fundamental design goal so that should work fine. Thanks, going to try it out on my project then, probably today. > flask shouldn't be a dependency. Its in the rest requirements: https://github.com/iommirocks/iommi/blob/master/test_requirements.txt https://github.com/iommirocks/iommi/blob/master/test_require... > I tried to get iommi to work on flask/sqlalchemy many years ago, but that's somewhat abondoned I was wondering whether something like that was possible.
- boxed 1y ago> [flask] in the test requirements Good point. I've removed it. Thanks. > [iommi for flask possible] The HTTP parts are super easy, it's the ORM mapping support that is the big issue. When I made an attempt first time SQLAlchemy was in the middle of a huge API change too, which meant the docs were rather bad and incomplete. Maybe it's better now. Supporting both Django Templates and Jinja2 is a bit annoying too, but doable.
- Loeffelmann 1y agothis looks like one of those things where it completely breaks apart if you want to do anything custom or out of line to what is intended by the framework. Causing way more headaches down the line then if you just did it yourself from the start.
- boxed 1y agoI understand that gut feeling. I've worked with many such systems. iommi is not like that though, because we HATE systems that have a nice two line demo but then immediately falls apart. We consider any failure to scale up customization a high priority bug. How do we handle this in practice? Nice defaults, easy to do deep customization with zero boilerplate, AND escape hatches of various forms. So if you need to just render your own template for an entire table row of form input field or whatever, you can do that. Always.
- j_lubcke 1y agoActually, how it behaves with special cases was one of the initial requirements when it was built. A design goal has always been that there should be escape hatches. For example almost all settings can be a call-back if the value is not known up front.
- pantulis 1y agoFrom my experience with similar things built around Rails (ActiveAdmin and others) being based in a dynamic language helps and allows to accomodate a lot of customizations.
- boxed 1y agoIt can. But it doesn't necessarily mean that. Or maybe it means you CAN work around it, but it's cumbersome/bad to do so. Imo the Django Admin is like that: lots of ad-hoc and random customization options and lots of missing options, and it's a pain to override etc.
- pantulis 1y agoAgreed. When you use a web framework you are somehow trusting the ability of the creators to ship something reusable and extensible. When you use something like this now you have two groups of creators to trust that they are not only good and coding but also good at making opinionated decisions. Or, better said, you switch your trust from the framework --after all it's battle tested-- to a new group. If one is a seasoned Django developer I guess they can take a look at the source code and judge if it suits your needs. But if it does, there is a lot of development speed to be gained.
- dotandgtfo 1y agoPlease add more examples or a demo page or something. The gif and picture in the github repo is the single most descriptive part of your documentation, but a gif is terrible UX and a picture doesn't show off interactivity. This should be front and center on your landing page. This may be useful for me, but I'm not going to bother setting up a test Django environment to test this just to find out that it isn't what I expected.
- boxed 1y agoThe docs has a lot of examples, especially the cookbook. For example: https://docs.iommi.rocks/cookbook_tables.html https://docs.iommi.rocks/cookbook_tables.html In the docs, if you click on the links "forms" or "tables", that will lead to the docs for those parts with a few example, and that in turn links to the cookbooks. There's also my talk from Django Days: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ydRdbA_tXdw&pp=ygUXYW5kZXJzIGhvdm3DtmxsZXIgaW9tbWk%3D https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ydRdbA_tXdw&pp=ygUXYW5kZXJzI...
- dotandgtfo 1y agoThanks, looks interesting. I may play around with it. I think what happened was that I landed on your page. Read the landing page, which only contained code. Scrolled to the top and clicked "install in minutes" and was unexpectedly redirected down the page. Then I clicked into github and didn't click on the forms/tables hyperlinks there. I think what I'm saying is primarily that I'm lazy. Secondly, your landing page is too code oriented and does not show off any UI and your anchor link (which typically links into documentation) short-circuited my search for a docs page. I think you would have gotten considerably more upvotes on this post if you show the product off more on the landing page. Despite the obvious lack of effort I put into learning your product, most people who clicked on this link today did even less. No shade or anything. Again, the product looks nice now that I've seen it in the docs.
- boxed 1y agoAll good feedback. Thanks.
- ubermonkey 1y agoI don't know what this is but I am 100% here for the name.