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No, that is wrong. "Atheism is the view that there is no God." -- Internet Encyclopedia of Philosophy, http://www.iep.utm.edu/atheism/ http://www.iep.utm.edu/at

No, that is wrong. "Atheism is the view that there is no God." -- Internet Encyclopedia of Philosophy, http://www.iep.utm.edu/atheism/ http://www.iep.utm.edu/atheism/. Its definition matches every other one I have ever seen; I challenge you to find any reputable citation for the definition you're trying to use, and I dare you to tell any self-described atheist that they can believe in god and still be an atheist so long as it isn't a "personal" god. You are maybe misunderstanding the definition of atheism due to the difference between theism and deism; however, atheism by definition is a rejection of both.

Alex3917 14y ago
From the link you posted: "Atheism is the view that there is no God. Unless otherwise noted, this article will use the term “God” to describe the divine entity that is a central tenet of the major monotheistic religious traditions–Christianity, Islam, and Judaism." From the Wikipedia article on atheism: "Atheism is, in a broad sense, the rejection of belief in the existence of deities. In a narrower sense, atheism is specifically the position that there are no deities. Most inclusively, atheism is simply the absence of belief that any deities exist. Atheism is contrasted with theism, which in its most general form is the belief that at least one deity exists." Now from the Wikipedia article on theism: "Theism [...] conceives of God as personal, present and active in the governance and organization of the world and the universe. As such theism describes the classical conception of God that is found in Christianity, Judaism, Islam and some forms of Hinduism." I don't have any a better source than Wikipedia, although you could check the footnotes, of which there are many. My basic claim though is that atheism doesn't just mean that you believe there is no god, it means that you believe there is no theistic god. (Hence the word.) Theism is the belief not that there is a god, but that there is a personal god.
- derleth 14y ago
  > My basic claim though is that atheism doesn't just mean that you believe there is no god, it means that you believe there is no theistic god. As the term is actually used, atheism is the lack of faith in the supernatural. Look up 'dictionary atheist' on Google sometime.
- thaumaturgy 14y ago
  You are reading that WP article as charitably towards your position as possible. You are ignoring your own quoted text about atheism being, "specifically the position that there are no deities", in favor of interpreting it as a perfect contrast to theism. The WP article for "deism" -- the term you should be using -- is just one click away from the article on theism. Likewise, reading further down in the article I cited supports both your view and mine. The very first paragraph of http://atheists.org/atheism http://atheists.org/atheism is, "Atheism is the lack of belief in a deity, which implies that nothing exists but natural phenomena (matter), that thought is a property or function of matter, and that death irreversibly and totally terminates individual organic units. This definition means that there are no forces, phenomena, or entities which exist outside of or apart from physical nature, or which transcend nature, or are “super” natural, nor can there be. Humankind is on its own." Reddit's atheism subreddit -- generally regarded as the largest online forum for atheists, so not exactly without repute -- has a FAQ (http://www.reddit.com/r/atheism/faq#Whatisatheism http://www.reddit.com/r/atheism/faq#Whatisatheism) which clearly states, "There is no inherent relationship between atheism and a religion. A person can be both atheist and religious, provided that he or she believes in a religion that does not have any deities, such as some forms of Buddhism." I anonymously posted an excerpt of our conversation to that same subreddit, at http://www.reddit.com/r/atheism/comments/10gt4a/so_apparently_atheist_now_means_believes_in_an/ http://www.reddit.com/r/atheism/comments/10gt4a/so_apparentl.... It didn't get much attention, but the responses so far aren't really in your favor, either. You keep finding really tiny bits of language in various articles to try to draw the conclusion that atheism only means a lack of belief in the Western ideal of a singular, personal God, even though you can't bring to bear any article which comes right out and clearly states that. But, I'm finding it difficult to find anything that clearly says your position is wrong (and some articles do kind of, sort of, almost support your position, given the sort of narrow interpretation you're using); I'm inclined to attribute that more to having never in my life read or heard atheism described the way you are trying to use it. It's a little like trying to find an article that specifically states, "God does not have a beard that is blue in color." But, most importantly, you seem like a pretty nice guy, you've been around HN for even longer than I have, you seem otherwise perfectly reasonable, and as far as I can tell we've never fought before. Whether some guy on the internet believes that atheism includes beliefs in "impersonal deities" or not, or whether Einstein was an atheist or not, really doesn't matter to me, nor do I have the time or desire to continue arguing about it. I am far more interested in public education continuing to teach the foundations of basic sciences, which is the only reason I got involved in this thread to begin with. So rock on, brother.

Alex3917 14y ago

From the link you posted: "Atheism is the view that there is no God. Unless otherwise noted, this article will use the term “God” to describe the divine entity that is a central tenet of the major monotheistic religious traditions–Christianity, Islam, and Judaism." From the Wikipedia article on atheism: "Atheism is, in a broad sense, the rejection of belief in the existence of deities. In a narrower sense, atheism is specifically the position that there are no deities. Most inclusively, atheism is simply the absence of belief that any deities exist. Atheism is contrasted with theism, which in its most general form is the belief that at least one deity exists." Now from the Wikipedia article on theism: "Theism [...] conceives of God as personal, present and active in the governance and organization of the world and the universe. As such theism describes the classical conception of God that is found in Christianity, Judaism, Islam and some forms of Hinduism." I don't have any a better source than Wikipedia, although you could check the footnotes, of which there are many. My basic claim though is that atheism doesn't just mean that you believe there is no god, it means that you believe there is no theistic god. (Hence the word.) Theism is the belief not that there is a god, but that there is a personal god.

derleth 14y ago
> My basic claim though is that atheism doesn't just mean that you believe there is no god, it means that you believe there is no theistic god. As the term is actually used, atheism is the lack of faith in the supernatural. Look up 'dictionary atheist' on Google sometime.
thaumaturgy 14y ago
You are reading that WP article as charitably towards your position as possible. You are ignoring your own quoted text about atheism being, "specifically the position that there are no deities", in favor of interpreting it as a perfect contrast to theism. The WP article for "deism" -- the term you should be using -- is just one click away from the article on theism. Likewise, reading further down in the article I cited supports both your view and mine. The very first paragraph of http://atheists.org/atheism http://atheists.org/atheism is, "Atheism is the lack of belief in a deity, which implies that nothing exists but natural phenomena (matter), that thought is a property or function of matter, and that death irreversibly and totally terminates individual organic units. This definition means that there are no forces, phenomena, or entities which exist outside of or apart from physical nature, or which transcend nature, or are “super” natural, nor can there be. Humankind is on its own." Reddit's atheism subreddit -- generally regarded as the largest online forum for atheists, so not exactly without repute -- has a FAQ (http://www.reddit.com/r/atheism/faq#Whatisatheism http://www.reddit.com/r/atheism/faq#Whatisatheism) which clearly states, "There is no inherent relationship between atheism and a religion. A person can be both atheist and religious, provided that he or she believes in a religion that does not have any deities, such as some forms of Buddhism." I anonymously posted an excerpt of our conversation to that same subreddit, at http://www.reddit.com/r/atheism/comments/10gt4a/so_apparently_atheist_now_means_believes_in_an/ http://www.reddit.com/r/atheism/comments/10gt4a/so_apparentl.... It didn't get much attention, but the responses so far aren't really in your favor, either. You keep finding really tiny bits of language in various articles to try to draw the conclusion that atheism only means a lack of belief in the Western ideal of a singular, personal God, even though you can't bring to bear any article which comes right out and clearly states that. But, I'm finding it difficult to find anything that clearly says your position is wrong (and some articles do kind of, sort of, almost support your position, given the sort of narrow interpretation you're using); I'm inclined to attribute that more to having never in my life read or heard atheism described the way you are trying to use it. It's a little like trying to find an article that specifically states, "God does not have a beard that is blue in color." But, most importantly, you seem like a pretty nice guy, you've been around HN for even longer than I have, you seem otherwise perfectly reasonable, and as far as I can tell we've never fought before. Whether some guy on the internet believes that atheism includes beliefs in "impersonal deities" or not, or whether Einstein was an atheist or not, really doesn't matter to me, nor do I have the time or desire to continue arguing about it. I am far more interested in public education continuing to teach the foundations of basic sciences, which is the only reason I got involved in this thread to begin with. So rock on, brother.