> they're barely more convenient as raw sockets (there's framing, but framing is easy) I think it's significant more convenient if your stack touches multiple

> they're barely more convenient as raw sockets (there's framing, but framing is easy) I think it's significant more convenient if your stack touches multiple programming languages. Otherwise you'd have to implement framing yourself for all of them. Not hard, but I don't see the benefit either. > they also add a bunch of performance and complexity overhead over raw sockets What performance overhead is there over raw sockets once you're past the protocol upgrade? It seems negligible if you connection is even slightly long-lived.