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So in other words you've got nothing? There is literally nothing in your links that backs up your claims. So conferences in every western country should also n

So in other words you've got nothing? There is literally nothing in your links that backs up your claims. So conferences in every western country should also not invite Chinese or Japanese speakers because they hold similar views to DHH? I'm so over this exhausting need to feel self-righteous.

mort96 1y ago
Hm? My claim is that they back Omarchy and DHH, I think my links back that up?
- tomnipotent 1y ago
  And that is not a transitive property which then means Framework supports fascism. The US buys from China, does that mean we support communism?
  - mort96 1y ago
    International trade is extremely complex, funding and publicizing a project is not. Framework supports DHH, both financially and in terms of publicity. That's not something I wanna support.
    - Alupis 1y ago
      The mental gymnastics and contortions you are putting yourself through are quite stunning. You're finding associations that do not exist. I feel I'm staring at a wall strewn with thumb-tacked red yarn, linking all sorts of nonsense together while the creator steps back and exclaims "see, proof!". Framework makes hardware and software. If you're going to close yourself off to any product or organization that happens to have some users you disagree with - then you're not going to get very far in this world. This is a wild, and frankly unhealthy perspective to hold.
      - mort96 1y ago
        Please explain which associations I'm finding which do not exist. > If you're going to close yourself off to any product or organization that happens to have some users you disagree with I do not see where I mentioned Framework users. I care about the actions of the company. I care that they decide to support DHH, financially and through promoting his projects, and I care that they double down on their support in the face of push-back.
        tomnipotent 1y ago
        > double down on their support in the face of push-back. Because the push-back was dumb. This idea what we have to isolate and attack every person that we don't agree with is dumb. That you consider DHH's position on immigration sufficient to label him a fascist is dumb. All of it is moral showboating with no actual substance, otherwise you'd put your money where you mouth is and not purchase from most companies in the world that work with actual fascist regimes.
        mort96 1y ago
        I respectfully disagree with your opinion on the matter.
- phpnode 1y ago
  Your claim was that they explicitly support fascism. That doesn't seem to be the case at all. What you seem to mean instead is: They financially support a popular open source project called Omarchy, which is built by DHH, and you believe DHH to be a fascist. You're welcome to your opinion, and I have zero insight into whether DHH is a fascist or not, but by no means is that explicit support for fascism! It's not just exaggeration, it's actually a lie. If you buy a machine from Framework you might indirectly support a project which is maintained by someone whose opinions you dislike. If you buy a Lenovo machine you will contribute to the revenue of an authoritarian government that will use some of that money to perpetuate human rights abuses against its own citizens, and maybe the citizens of your own country too one day. Which is the most moral choice here in your opinion?
  - mort96 1y ago
    I didn't say they explicitly support fascism. I said they are explicitly political, and they are pro-fascism.
    - phpnode 1y ago
      Ok, sorry I misread what you wrote. The question stands though
      - mort96 1y ago
        I mean I already answered that, didn't I? I find it worse to buy from the explicitly political pro-fascist company than to buy from the "normal company" which just "incidentally" benefit fascist governments through their normal business operations. To exaggerate, we could imagine that there was an explicitly nazi computer manufacturer who put swastika stickers on their laptops and everything. When faced with the choice of Lenovo and this explicitly nazi manufacturer, I would probably choose the Lenovo, even though you could probably do the same consequentialist math and conclude that Lenovo does more actual harm through their utility to the CCP than what the tiny nazi computer company can do. I imagine you feel the same way. What Framework does is obviously way less egregious than my hypothetical example, but I'm still not comfortable associating with a company which so publicly funds DHH, for the same kind of reason that I would not be comfortable associating with the nazi computer company.

mort96 1y ago

Hm? My claim is that they back Omarchy and DHH, I think my links back that up?

tomnipotent 1y ago
And that is not a transitive property which then means Framework supports fascism. The US buys from China, does that mean we support communism?
- mort96 1y ago
  International trade is extremely complex, funding and publicizing a project is not. Framework supports DHH, both financially and in terms of publicity. That's not something I wanna support.
  - Alupis 1y ago
    The mental gymnastics and contortions you are putting yourself through are quite stunning. You're finding associations that do not exist. I feel I'm staring at a wall strewn with thumb-tacked red yarn, linking all sorts of nonsense together while the creator steps back and exclaims "see, proof!". Framework makes hardware and software. If you're going to close yourself off to any product or organization that happens to have some users you disagree with - then you're not going to get very far in this world. This is a wild, and frankly unhealthy perspective to hold.
    - mort96 1y ago
      Please explain which associations I'm finding which do not exist. > If you're going to close yourself off to any product or organization that happens to have some users you disagree with I do not see where I mentioned Framework users. I care about the actions of the company. I care that they decide to support DHH, financially and through promoting his projects, and I care that they double down on their support in the face of push-back.
      - tomnipotent 1y ago
        > double down on their support in the face of push-back. Because the push-back was dumb. This idea what we have to isolate and attack every person that we don't agree with is dumb. That you consider DHH's position on immigration sufficient to label him a fascist is dumb. All of it is moral showboating with no actual substance, otherwise you'd put your money where you mouth is and not purchase from most companies in the world that work with actual fascist regimes.
        mort96 1y ago
        I respectfully disagree with your opinion on the matter.
phpnode 1y ago
Your claim was that they explicitly support fascism. That doesn't seem to be the case at all. What you seem to mean instead is: They financially support a popular open source project called Omarchy, which is built by DHH, and you believe DHH to be a fascist. You're welcome to your opinion, and I have zero insight into whether DHH is a fascist or not, but by no means is that explicit support for fascism! It's not just exaggeration, it's actually a lie. If you buy a machine from Framework you might indirectly support a project which is maintained by someone whose opinions you dislike. If you buy a Lenovo machine you will contribute to the revenue of an authoritarian government that will use some of that money to perpetuate human rights abuses against its own citizens, and maybe the citizens of your own country too one day. Which is the most moral choice here in your opinion?
- mort96 1y ago
  I didn't say they explicitly support fascism. I said they are explicitly political, and they are pro-fascism.
  - phpnode 1y ago
    Ok, sorry I misread what you wrote. The question stands though
    - mort96 1y ago
      I mean I already answered that, didn't I? I find it worse to buy from the explicitly political pro-fascist company than to buy from the "normal company" which just "incidentally" benefit fascist governments through their normal business operations. To exaggerate, we could imagine that there was an explicitly nazi computer manufacturer who put swastika stickers on their laptops and everything. When faced with the choice of Lenovo and this explicitly nazi manufacturer, I would probably choose the Lenovo, even though you could probably do the same consequentialist math and conclude that Lenovo does more actual harm through their utility to the CCP than what the tiny nazi computer company can do. I imagine you feel the same way. What Framework does is obviously way less egregious than my hypothetical example, but I'm still not comfortable associating with a company which so publicly funds DHH, for the same kind of reason that I would not be comfortable associating with the nazi computer company.