6 ms·

I surrender. Lisp really is better than C++.

15 points by jcwentz 19y ago

amichail 19y ago
Almost anything is better than C++!
- deleted 19y ago
  [deleted]
daniel-cussen 19y ago
PG, you started a movement.
- dpapathanasiou 19y ago
  Well, not everyone is convinced: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44461 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44461
jmzachary 19y ago
Oh god, here we go ...
koolmoe 19y ago
I think he missed the biggest differentiator between C++ and Lisp - it's fun to program in Lisp!
palish 19y ago
"Up until now, everything that I'd seen done in Lisp could easily be done in C++ too. The only real difference was a little more verbosity. But the unit-testing framework that was developed in that chapter..." Interesting that a unit testing framework was the final straw. It's horrible not being able to use closures.
- dfranke 19y ago
  It's usually lack of garbage collection that gets to me the fastest. Closures are a close second, but those you can easily fake in nearly any language. In Java, anonymous classes usually do the job. In C with GNU extensions, you can use nested functions as callbacks, with the caveat that they'll only be available within the dynamic scope of the caller.
  - jey 19y ago
    http://www.boost.org/libs/smart_ptr/shared_ptr.htm http://www.boost.org/libs/smart_ptr/shared_ptr.htm Granted, it's not garbage collection, but sometimes you have to write C++ and boost makes that manageable. boost::shared_ptr is based on refcounts, so you need to be aware of cycles and use boost::weak_ptr accordingly.
  - damien 19y ago
    Lack of garbage collection built into the language, you mean? I'm not disagreeing with you, just clarifying.
    - dfranke 19y ago
      Yes.
jey 19y ago
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- portLAN 19y ago
  >++++++++[<+++++++++>-]<+.>+++++[<------>-]<----.>++++++++[<++++++++> -]<++++++.>++++c++++[<--------->-]<-----.>++++++++[<++++++++>-]<+++++ ++.>++[<++++>-]<.>++[<--->-]<.>++[<++>-]<+.>++[<--->-]<-.>++++++++[<- ------->-]<-------.>+++++++++[<+++++++++>-]<+++.>++[<-->-]<-.>+++++++ +[<--------->-]<-------.>++++++++[<++++++++>-]<+++++.>++[<++++>-]<.>+ ++[<--->-]<--.+++.-.>++++++++[<-------->-]<----.>+++++[<++++++>-]<+++ +.>++++++[<++++++++>-]<.>++++[<---->-]<-.>++[<++++>-]<.>++[<++>-]<+.> ++[<---->-]<.>+++[<+++++>-]<.>++++[<---->-]<--.>++[<++++>-]<.>+++++++ +[<--------->-]<---.>++++++++[<+++++++++>-]<+.>++[<++>-]<+.>++++++++[ <--------->-]<------.>++++++++[<+++++++++>-]<+++++.>+++[<++++>-]<.>++ +++++++[<--------->-]<--------.>++++++++[<+++++++++>-]<++++++.>+++[<- -->-]<.>++++[<++++>-]<+++.----.>+++++++++[<--------->-]<---.>++++++++ [<++++++++++>-]<.++.---.>++[<---->-]<.>+++[<+++>-]<++.>++++[<---->-]< -.>+++[<++++>-]<.>++++++++[<--------->-]<-----.>++++++++[<+++++++++>- ]<++.>+++[<+++>-]<++.--.+.>+++++++++[<--------->-]<---.>++++++++[<+++ +++++>-]<++++++.>+++[<+++>-]<.+++.>+++++++++[<--------->-]<-.>+++++++ +[<+++++++++>-]<+++.--.>++[<--->-]<.>++[<++++>-]<.>++[<++++>-]<.>++++ ++++[<-------->-]<-----.>++++++[<------>-]<.
  - jey 19y ago
    >+++++++++++++++++++++++[<+++>-]<.>+++++++++++++++++[<+++>-]<.>+++++++[<--->-]< .++.+++++++..-------.>+++[<+++>-]<.>+++[<++>-]<.>++++++++++++[<------->-]<.++++ +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++.+++++.+++++++.> +++[<-->-]<.>+++[<-->-]<.++.>+++++++++++[<----->-]<.>+++++++[<-->-]<.>+++++++++ ++++++++[<++>-]<.>++++++++[<++++++>-]<.-----------------.>++++[<++>-]<.+++++.>+ +++[<-->-]<.>+++++[<+++>-]<.>++++++[<--->-]<.>++++[<++>-]<.>+++++++++++++++++[< ---->-]<.>+++++++++++++++++++[<++++>-]<.--------------------------------------- --------------------------------------------.++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++.+++++.>+++[<++>-]<.>+++++[<--->-]<.++++ +++++++++.--.++.-------------.>+++++[<+++>-]<.>+++++[<--->-]<.+++++++++++++.>++ +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++[<-->-]<.>+++++++++++++[<+++++>-]<.+++++ ++++++++.>+++++[<-->-]<.>+++++++++++++++++[<---->-]<.>+++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++++++++++[<++>-]<.+++.-------.>+++[<++>-]<.-----------.++++.>++++[<-->-] <.>+++++++++++++++++++++++[<--->-]<.>+++++++++++++[<+++++>-]<.+++++++++++++++++ .-------------.>+++++++++++++++++++++++[<--->-]<.>+++++++++++++++++++++++[<+++> -]<.+++++++++++++++++.-----------------.>+++[<+++>-]<.>+++++++++++++[<------>-] <.+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++.>+++[<-->-]<.>++++[<--->-]<.+++++++++++..-------.+++++++++++++.>++++++++ +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++[<-->-]<.>++++++++++++[<+++++++>-]<.>++++[<--- >-]<.-------.+++++++++++++.>+++++++++++++[<------>-]<.>+++++++++++[<++++>-]<.++ +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++.>+++++[<---->-]<.>+++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++[<-->-]<.>+++++++++++++++++++[<++++>-]<.------------------------------- ----------------------------------------.>++++[<--->-]<.>+++++++++++[<+++>-]<.+ ++++++++++++.>+++++[<-->-]<.>++++++[<------>-]<.>++++++++++++[<+++++++>-]<.>+++ +[<--->-]<.---.>+++++++++++++++++++++++[<--->-]<.>+++++++++++++++++++[<++++>-]< .-----------.+++++++++++++.-------.>+++++++[<++>-]<.>+++++[<---->-]<.>+++[<++>- ]<.--.>+++++++++++++++++++++++[<--->-]<.+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++.>+++++[<++>-]<.----------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------.>+++++++++++++++++[<++++ >-]<.+.----.+++.>+++++++++++++++++[<---->-]<.++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++.>+++++[<-->-]<.++++.+++.----. -------.>+++++++++++++++++[<---->-]<.
henning 19y ago
"X is better than Y" is meaningless. Better for what under what specific conditions, and how so?

15 points by jcwentz 19y ago

amichail 19y ago

Almost anything is better than C++!

deleted 19y ago
[deleted]

daniel-cussen 19y ago

PG, you started a movement.

dpapathanasiou 19y ago
Well, not everyone is convinced: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44461 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44461

jmzachary 19y ago

Oh god, here we go ...

koolmoe 19y ago

I think he missed the biggest differentiator between C++ and Lisp - it's fun to program in Lisp!

palish 19y ago

"Up until now, everything that I'd seen done in Lisp could easily be done in C++ too. The only real difference was a little more verbosity. But the unit-testing framework that was developed in that chapter..." Interesting that a unit testing framework was the final straw. It's horrible not being able to use closures.

dfranke 19y ago
It's usually lack of garbage collection that gets to me the fastest. Closures are a close second, but those you can easily fake in nearly any language. In Java, anonymous classes usually do the job. In C with GNU extensions, you can use nested functions as callbacks, with the caveat that they'll only be available within the dynamic scope of the caller.
- jey 19y ago
  http://www.boost.org/libs/smart_ptr/shared_ptr.htm http://www.boost.org/libs/smart_ptr/shared_ptr.htm Granted, it's not garbage collection, but sometimes you have to write C++ and boost makes that manageable. boost::shared_ptr is based on refcounts, so you need to be aware of cycles and use boost::weak_ptr accordingly.
- damien 19y ago
  Lack of garbage collection built into the language, you mean? I'm not disagreeing with you, just clarifying.
  - dfranke 19y ago
    Yes.

jey 19y ago

>+++++++++++[<++++++>-]<.>+++++++++++++++++[<+++>-]<.-.>++++++++++++[<------->- ]<.>+++++++[<+++++>-]<.>++++++[<---->-]<..-----------.+++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++.>+++++[<++>-]<.--------------- --------------------------------------------------------------------.++++++++++ +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++.+.--- --------.+++..>+++++++++++++++++++[<---->-]<.>+++++++++++[<++++++>-]<.+++.>++++ +[<+++>-]<..>+++++[<--->-]<.+++++++++++++.>++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ +++++[<-->-]<.>++++++++++++[<+++++++>-]<.>++++[<--->-]<.-------.+++++++++++++.> +++++++++++++[<------>-]<.>+++++++++++[<++++++>-]<.>++++[<++++>-]<.------------ -----.>++++[<++>-]<.+++++.>++++[<-->-]<.>+++++[<+++>-]<.>++++++[<--->-]<.>++++[ <++>-]<.>+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++[<-->-]<.

portLAN 19y ago
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- jey 19y ago
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henning 19y ago

"X is better than Y" is meaningless. Better for what under what specific conditions, and how so?