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My advice is if you’re truly a Linux user first, give up the idea that Mac hardware is the only best/acceptable hardware. Break the cycle and don’t just buy App

• notepad0x90 1y ago
  I don't think any other competitor makes hardware of a similar class in terms of quality. Framework is great, but it doesn't even come close in terms of quality. Specs are one thing, how the product looks, feels, attention to detail, and most importantly: long term viability! even if you take away everything else, macbooks are though. I've used a couple for over a decade with no hardware repair (except when I broke a screen). Most mac users have similar experiences, so it's not survivor's bias. If all you care about is specs or open hardware, obviously Apple hardware is not for you. I don't want framework or system76 to move to ARM, a lot of people like me still _need_ x86 hardware.
  • LilBytes 1y ago
    That's the thing. Even when you consider the hardware benefits. Let's say they're 10% better (I feel but happy to be corrected, that feels understated). There isn't a single machine out there that's even moderately close in terms of build quality. Either at the dollar cost for an entry series MacBook Pro or Air with 36GB (38?) memory. I don't think there's an OEM Linux or Windows laptop with Linux as a first class citizen laptop out there even moderately close for value, performance and build quality. Shit I'm not sure if there's even one out there if you spent considerably more than on a MacBook. MacBook Pro's are pretty good value now.
    • notepad0x90 1y ago
      From personal experience, laptops that cost $30000+ (yes, USD) still come nowhere close to even a macbook air in terms of build quality. They have much better specs, but if you run Windows on it, the effects are much less pronounced. I have moved from a new Dell to a macbook with half the cpu and ram and for me t least it "feels" like the macbook is twice as fast and as responsive. I don't know if it is just better architecture or fine tuned software, but that's my experience. Apple used the whole "economy of scale" effect to invest in specialized tooling/machining that would be too costly to recover the ROI for other OEMs. Keep in mind that consumer laptop makers to the most part don't make a profit (or have a low profit margin - last i checked at least) on laptops and printers. No one else has made the economics of using quality material, top of the line design, and specialized machining/tooling work like Apple.
      • rzerowan 1y ago
        I think for generic OEMs that may hold , however for manufactures like Huawei with their matebookX line the build quality is pretty much on-par while the components and options being offthe shelf standard means it should be easier to upgrade/support and port Linux to than MacBooks.Also the price is pretty much competititve for the kit that one gets. The blocking isseu would be getting one as the whole US attack on the company means their kit is pretty much limited edition within China at the moment currently.Maybe in a year or two they should be available at previous volumes.
• evertedsphere 1y ago
  if only it were 10% even the things you mention in your post paint a picture of a difference that for a lot of usage patterns is much more significant than just the last 10%
• mort96 1y ago
  [flagged]
  • monocasa 1y ago
    I didn't hear about that and a simple search isn't surfacing that. Can you expand?
    • michelb 1y ago
      He's probably referencing Framework's involvement with Omarchy, which certain people had problems with.
  • phpnode 1y ago
    if you're going to hold Framework to that standard, wouldn't you also agree that buying a Lenovo machine would be indirectly supporting an authoritarian government with a troubling human-rights record?
    • timeon 1y ago
      Sure for similar reasons (+ few other) I'm moving away from Apple. Framework is no longer on my list.
    • mort96 1y ago
      You're typically not buying a Framework just because you like the hardware. Framework represents a political project, so you typically buy Framework because you support their values and politics. I don't.
      • phpnode 1y ago
        You can rationalise your decision however you want, but to me it sounds like you're mad with the little guy for their lack of moral purity, but you're implicitly fine with a larger company doing much worse. That seems inconsistent at best.
• xxpor 1y ago
  My only issue with Intel at this point is Lunar Lake only supports 32GB of RAM max. If it supported 64GB, I'd buy it today.
  • saratogacx 1y ago
    I believe that Arrow Lake supports 64gb. I'm waiting on availability before I replace my aging (9yo) Lenovo X1 Yoga.
• mystifyingpoi 1y ago
  > owning/carrying around a $50 portable battery isn’t such a bad thing Carrying an extra powerbank that has to be charged daily (assuming you'll use your computer full day) is not something I'd just handwave like that.
  • londons_explore 1y ago
    For some types of work, I carry around 3 power banks if I'm to do a full days work away from power. Max screen brightness + high CPU use of long compiles means I'm averaging 40 watts Add on a starlink and you need a trolley to carry the weight of the power packs needed.
    • mystifyingpoi 1y ago
      Sure. For your type of work, that's the only solution. To clarify, I'm totally fine with powerbanks, especially that these days even the cheapo ones support a subset of PD to charge a laptop (sometimes even 12V is enough, my Thinkpad allows that, I've read somewhere that Framework can charge from even 5V). I'm just not fine with solving an objectively poorer battery management (compared to Macs) by just buying external battery and calling it a solution. It's a workaround at best.
  • dangus 1y ago
    Why not? My framework weighs 1 pound less than my MacBook Pro did and the spare battery weighs about one pound itself. Net backpack weight is the same. If I am guilty of hand waving a spare battery aren’t MacBook die-hard guilty of handwaving away major downsides to the device like soldered-in storage? I saved something like $500 compared to Apple by buying my own 2TB of storage. And let’s be honest, it’s rare to actually need MacBook Air levels of “sitting away from a power outlet” battery life. It’s definitely nice to have and I definitely wish my framework had that level of battery life but it’s a want not a need, and it’s not as important to me as having a system I can repair myself, having a system that runs Linux with first-class support, plays PC games easily, etc. I will also say that the spare battery being in my backpack now has coincidentally come in handy countless times outside of the laptop. And if you want better battery life than that there are other choices like Lenovo, you don’t even have to use a Framework to get a great Linux laptop.
• linguae 1y ago
  I have a Framework 13 that I use as my personal laptop and a work-issued M3 MacBook Pro. I love my Framework 13. I'm a long-time Mac user, but I increasingly found myself alienated by locked-down hardware and increasingly locked-down software, and so I ended up switching back to PCs. I greatly appreciate my Framework 13's user-serviceability. While I use Windows 11 + WSL (Microsoft Office is the main thing holding me back from using Linux exclusively, and yes, I was a regular LibreOffice user back in my student days when I couldn't afford a Microsoft Office license), it's great to have the option to go to Linux full-time on well-supported hardware. With that said, my M3 MacBook Pro has absolutely amazing battery life. By comparison, my Framework 13 has rather abysmal battery life by 2025 standards. In fact, it feels reminiscent of my very first Apple laptop: a 2006 Core Duo MacBook, which got roughly five hours when brand new. Even putting my Framework 13 to sleep drains the battery after a few hours, while on my MacBook Pro, it barely sips from the battery. I hope future releases of Framework laptops have better battery life; it makes a difference.
  • NaomiLehman 1y ago
    My beef with the Framework laptops is that their memory bandwidth is 5 to 8 times slower (depending on the generation, CPU, and RAM) than that of a $1,500 refurbished MacBook Pro M1 Max 64GB.
    • dangus 1y ago
      But then you have a 5 year old laptop that’s going to lose official Apple software support in 5 years and become a paperweight unless you install your choice of ONE Linux distro. If you don’t specifically have a memory bandwidth-constrained workflow this doesn’t matter at all and having upgradable memory is still better for most people. If Framework starts using CAMM modules or releases a Ryzen AI board with soldered RAM this difference is lessened/disappears.
      • evertedsphere 1y ago
        > choice of ONE Linux distro fwiw the asahi kernel and patches are usable from other distros just fine; i've done it on nixos in the past and the linked blog post shows some stuff running on gentoo
• jen20 1y ago
  > A new battery is DIY, $60, not $250 with a wait for service. Replacing a broken screen is DIY $200, not $700 and a visit to the Apple service depot. This is a weird assertion to make, if you don't have the parts on hand and can't walk into a store to buy them same-day. A big part of the reason I _do_ buy Apple laptops (besides the fact I do like the OS, battery life and hardware) is that I can walk into an Apple Store in any major city I'm likely to be in and purchase a replacement immediately should disaster strike while I'm traveling.
  • dangus 1y ago
    But now you’re comparing buying a whole new computer to repairing one. It’s not like it’s hard to buy an x86 laptop at a Best Buy. The fact of the matter is that sending a MacBook to depot and fixing it takes around a week including transit times to and from. Apple no longer does any computer repairs in store. At $60 for a battery or $200 for a screen those parts are so cheap that I could just buy them to keep on hand and they’d still cost less than AppleCare. Many parts like storage and RAM are standard where, yes, I can walk into a store and buy them and install them same day.
    • jen20 1y ago
      It is in fact very difficult to buy a professional grade computer of any kind from Best Buy, let alone something like a Thinkpad with reasonable specs. You might luck out and be in a city with a micro center, but you probably won’t. If I’m on the road and my laptop breaks, I’m buying a new one post haste, and resolving the problem when I get home. It’s like 2-3 hours worth of billing time to do so vs screwing about trying to repair. Simply not worth the time.
      • dangus 1y ago
        I don’t believe you. My local Best Buy has 134 different laptop models in stock in the store. Have you ever heard of Amazon prime? You really think they don’t have a suitable laptop they can deliver to you overnight or maybe even the same day? And anyway, this is really only an argument for “whatever is most popular,” not “what is the best machine.” If some other brand besides Apple was the most popular laptop in the world that other brand would get this same treatment by you even if the computer sucked (which MacBook Pro did between 2016 and 2020) Essentially you’re saying that Budweiser is the best beer because it’s the most available. If I run out of beer I can get it anywhere.