First before venting I'll say this: thanks to stuff like hypervisors, VMs, non-systemd distros, minimal immutable Linux distro like Talos (made to run Kubernete

First before venting I'll say this: thanks to stuff like hypervisors, VMs, non-systemd distros, minimal immutable Linux distro like Talos (made to run Kubernetes with a minimum number of executable) and OCI containers where, by definition, PID 1 is not systemd, there's thankfully a real way out of systemd, even on a Linux stack. And I think more people should look into being, once again, 100% systemd-free. > Can anyone tell why systemd developers run fast and loose with what they believe and bully everyone with a stick made out of their ideas? Because the goal is to take control of Linux. That's why systemd is PID1. That's why Poettering works for Microsoft. The real question is: why was that ultra-convoluted xz backdoor attempt only working on Linux systems that did have systemd? People shall try to wag the dog saying "but it's because this and that made is so that xz was loaded by OpenSSH, it's got nothing to do with systemd". It's got everything to do with systemd. And the other question is: how many backdoors are operational, today, on systems that have systemd? Systemd is Microsoft-level bloat, running as PID 1, spreading its tentacles everywhere in Linux distros, definitely on purpose. Poettering is moreover an insufferable bully, as can be seen once again. From TFA: > So what do you recommend how to go on from here? Change Debian policy (as asked in #1111839), revert the change in systemd, find a Debian wide solution or let every package maintainer implement their own solution? I suggest Debian just drops systemd once and for all. Debian can still be made systemd-free but it's a hassle. Just make Debian systemd free once again. Meanwhile you'll find me running systemd-less distros on VMs and running containers giving the PID 1 finger to systemd. I can't wait to switch my Proxmox to FreeBSD's bhyve hypervisor (need to find the time to do it). But most of all: I cannot wait for the day a systemd-less hypervisor Linux like Proxmox comes out. It's coming and people who write stuff like: "Don't use Docker, use systemd this and systemd that" are misguided. systemd is to me the antithesis of what Linux stands for. I hope Debian gets pissed enough at some point to fully drop systemd. P.S: one of my machine runs this: https://www.devuan.org/ https://www.devuan.org/ and honestly it's totally fine. So yup: power to all those running systemd-less distros, BSDs, etc.