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> and operating systems This must be an essential requirement for all PC-like devices. > regions People in different regions have very different average inco

> and operating systems This must be an essential requirement for all PC-like devices. > regions People in different regions have very different average income. As long as manufacturer scales prices accordingly, I think locking to this region might be appropriate. > buy the unlocked ones there and use them anywhere In the case if the price is already the worldwide highest one, you're right, no locking to the region is needed. > EU could actually break them up I think, EU could only achieve that a non-EU-based company leaves EU.

wkat4242 1y ago
> I think, EU could only achieve that a non-EU-based company leaves EU. Exactly, also, the US would prevent that geopolitically.
- AnthonyMouse 1y ago
  > also, the US would prevent that geopolitically. Everybody keeps saying that Trump is eroding US power etc. etc. Are they all lying or is the EU just too chicken to actually do it when it comes up? According to the TACO principle it goes the other way, right?
  - wkat4242 1y ago
    Oh he certainly is. But he is eroding it. It's only just starting and the EU is only just starting to disconnect itself from the US. So right now he still has a lot of pull.
  - kvemkon 1y ago
    E.g. EU companies could replace China 5G. But with US chips. While some new tiny FPGAs appeared recently (using obsolete manufacturing process), huge FPGAs from Xilinx(AMD)/Altera(Intel) cannot be replaced. China can make both US and EU calm down with rare earth materials. US can tame EU with chips and whatever else. And EU... no idea.
AnthonyMouse 1y ago
> This must be an essential requirement for all PC-like devices. Why are you excluding phone-like devices? That's where it's currently the bigger problem. You can't do it at all on iPhones and Android devices malign you with locked boot loaders, attestation failures and undocumented blob drivers tied to an ancient kernel version. > People in different regions have very different average income. As long as manufacturer scales prices accordingly, I think locking to this region might be appropriate. It's discriminating against the poor people of any country that also happens to have rich people in it. Both the poor and rich people of that country should want it banned there for their own benefit and they're the ones who get to decide that. > In the case if the price is already the worldwide highest one, you're right, no locking to the region is needed. The point of prohibiting the region locking in this case is that it also allows the unlocked versions of that vendor's devices to spread across the world, making them feel the remedy. But also, it would be fine for everyone to just prohibit region locking everywhere. Price discrimination is an arbitrage opportunity and it ought to stay that way. > I think, EU could only achieve that a non-EU-based company leaves EU. International companies aren't "based" anywhere in particular except for on paper, but Apple has significant operations in the EU. Moreover, they sell a significant number of devices there. The way a breakup works anywhere is that the government says "separate these business units into a separate entity or you can't operate here" and then if they don't do it, they both lose >$100B in annual revenue and cause there to be a large economic region where they don't exist which becomes a breeding ground for new competitors that can then spread into other regions. Given that choice, investors might be pretty unhappy if the executives choose that over just separating the company out into ones that collectively get to keep all of that revenue.
- kvemkon 1y ago
  > Why are you excluding phone-like devices? Actually not, for me *smart*phones are PC-like devices. Smartphone, especially modern one, is obviously a miniature personal computer. > It's discriminating against the poor people of any country that also happens to have rich people in it. I think, poor people are discriminated in every country generally if they need to buy products designed by an international company. While I've mentioned average income, it should be strictly speaking median income. > Price discrimination I mean that countries with lower median income deserves cheaper products. So that relatively there should be only minimal difference for poor people to be able to buy such products, regardless of the country of origin. > International companies aren't "based" anywhere in particular except for on paper, That's a good question. This "on paper" is crucial for all the legal stuff. US-based companies must obey not only EU rules but also US. Especially problematic is when they'd need to break a EU law to comply with the US law but they are never allowed to do this vice versa. This way I'd define where a company is based. > anywhere is that the government says It will be problematic due to multiple governments would be involved (typically US, EU, UK, China).

wkat4242 1y ago

> I think, EU could only achieve that a non-EU-based company leaves EU. Exactly, also, the US would prevent that geopolitically.

AnthonyMouse 1y ago
> also, the US would prevent that geopolitically. Everybody keeps saying that Trump is eroding US power etc. etc. Are they all lying or is the EU just too chicken to actually do it when it comes up? According to the TACO principle it goes the other way, right?
- wkat4242 1y ago
  Oh he certainly is. But he is eroding it. It's only just starting and the EU is only just starting to disconnect itself from the US. So right now he still has a lot of pull.
- kvemkon 1y ago
  E.g. EU companies could replace China 5G. But with US chips. While some new tiny FPGAs appeared recently (using obsolete manufacturing process), huge FPGAs from Xilinx(AMD)/Altera(Intel) cannot be replaced. China can make both US and EU calm down with rare earth materials. US can tame EU with chips and whatever else. And EU... no idea.

AnthonyMouse 1y ago

> This must be an essential requirement for all PC-like devices. Why are you excluding phone-like devices? That's where it's currently the bigger problem. You can't do it at all on iPhones and Android devices malign you with locked boot loaders, attestation failures and undocumented blob drivers tied to an ancient kernel version. > People in different regions have very different average income. As long as manufacturer scales prices accordingly, I think locking to this region might be appropriate. It's discriminating against the poor people of any country that also happens to have rich people in it. Both the poor and rich people of that country should want it banned there for their own benefit and they're the ones who get to decide that. > In the case if the price is already the worldwide highest one, you're right, no locking to the region is needed. The point of prohibiting the region locking in this case is that it also allows the unlocked versions of that vendor's devices to spread across the world, making them feel the remedy. But also, it would be fine for everyone to just prohibit region locking everywhere. Price discrimination is an arbitrage opportunity and it ought to stay that way. > I think, EU could only achieve that a non-EU-based company leaves EU. International companies aren't "based" anywhere in particular except for on paper, but Apple has significant operations in the EU. Moreover, they sell a significant number of devices there. The way a breakup works anywhere is that the government says "separate these business units into a separate entity or you can't operate here" and then if they don't do it, they both lose >$100B in annual revenue and cause there to be a large economic region where they don't exist which becomes a breeding ground for new competitors that can then spread into other regions. Given that choice, investors might be pretty unhappy if the executives choose that over just separating the company out into ones that collectively get to keep all of that revenue.

kvemkon 1y ago
> Why are you excluding phone-like devices? Actually not, for me *smart*phones are PC-like devices. Smartphone, especially modern one, is obviously a miniature personal computer. > It's discriminating against the poor people of any country that also happens to have rich people in it. I think, poor people are discriminated in every country generally if they need to buy products designed by an international company. While I've mentioned average income, it should be strictly speaking median income. > Price discrimination I mean that countries with lower median income deserves cheaper products. So that relatively there should be only minimal difference for poor people to be able to buy such products, regardless of the country of origin. > International companies aren't "based" anywhere in particular except for on paper, That's a good question. This "on paper" is crucial for all the legal stuff. US-based companies must obey not only EU rules but also US. Especially problematic is when they'd need to break a EU law to comply with the US law but they are never allowed to do this vice versa. This way I'd define where a company is based. > anywhere is that the government says It will be problematic due to multiple governments would be involved (typically US, EU, UK, China).