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> I’m kinda split on the whole Apple situation. I’m firmly in the camp of “monopoly bad”, but apparently people are fine with apple’s practices. It’s not like t

> I’m kinda split on the whole Apple situation. I’m firmly in the camp of “monopoly bad”, but apparently people are fine with apple’s practices. It’s not like they have to buy an iPhone. There are many things that now require you to have a phone that runs iOS or Google-approved Android. They both monopolize their respective markets and charge 30%, locking out competitors with attestation systems etc. Two incumbents that each divide up the customer base between them while locking out other competitors is called a cartel and it's not actually a competitive market.

jeroenhd 1y ago
Google-approved Android, at least for now until some judge hopefully shuts down the idiotic "verified developers" programme, has a range of app stores with different options. Unfortunately, Amazon shut theirs down, but charging a 30% convenience fee is a choice there. Inside of the EU the same is true for iOS, of course, although Apple still somehow charging developers per install makes it hard to provide apps for free.
- AnthonyMouse 1y ago
  > Google-approved Android, at least for now until some judge hopefully shuts down the idiotic "verified developers" programme, has a range of app stores with different options. In order for such a competitor to be viable for use by developers, it has to be installed on the devices of customers, which Google has acted to prevent. Google Play has over 90% market share on Android and has constrained OEMs from shipping devices with other stores installed and used other methods to prevent any alternatives from establishing a network effect. And now that regulators are getting after them about doing those things, they've sprung this "verified developers" trap to keep it going. This has the simplest evidence of anything. If other stores are a viable alternative, why do they have ~0% market share?
  - jeroenhd 1y ago
    > has constrained OEMs from shipping devices with other stores installed Every Samsung phone comes with the Samsung Store. My Xiaomi phone came with a Xiaomi store. I don't know about any vendors that even wanted to ship app stores outside of their own, but I don't recall Google preventing them from doing that. > If alternative stores are a viable alternative, why do they have ~0% market share? Because people like Google Play? All I ever read about the app store alternatives that do exist is that people wished they could get rid of them. Personally, I find Google Play to be the best app store around, even compared to iOS' app store, in terms of search functionality and responsiveness. And that's a low bar to clear, given the absolute garbage Google will throw at you with some searches. With Amazon closing its app store, the only independent app store that has the ability to charge people money has disappeared. That doesn't mean Steam or Epic or Microsoft couldn't set up their own stores if they wanted to. Hell, even with the "verified developer" system, alternative app stores are still possible.
    - AnthonyMouse 1y ago
      > Every Samsung phone comes with the Samsung Store. My Xiaomi phone came with a Xiaomi store. Google got caught withholding search revenue from vendors who installed third party stores and punishing them in various other ways. The phone vendor stores are all useless specifically because they're from the phone vendors, which means they'll be terrible because hardware vendors are notoriously bad at software, and on top of that they'll only be installed for people with that brand of phone, which again destroys the network effect. > All I ever read about the app store alternatives that do exist is that people wished they could get rid of them. Those are the phone vendor stores. Nobody wants those. Actual competitors would be the likes of Amazon or Epic or F-Droid, but Google's shenanigans have meant they all have negligible market share to the extent that Amazon even gave up. > Because people like Google Play? That wouldn't explain it. If they like Google Play and ten other things then they would each have ~10% market share. If they only like Google Play, that implies something fishy is going on, because you'd otherwise expect there to be a thousand bad ones and at least a dozen good ones since it's not that hard to set up an app store. Unless it is that hard, and then why is that?
      - 1y ago

jeroenhd 1y ago

Google-approved Android, at least for now until some judge hopefully shuts down the idiotic "verified developers" programme, has a range of app stores with different options. Unfortunately, Amazon shut theirs down, but charging a 30% convenience fee is a choice there. Inside of the EU the same is true for iOS, of course, although Apple still somehow charging developers per install makes it hard to provide apps for free.

AnthonyMouse 1y ago
> Google-approved Android, at least for now until some judge hopefully shuts down the idiotic "verified developers" programme, has a range of app stores with different options. In order for such a competitor to be viable for use by developers, it has to be installed on the devices of customers, which Google has acted to prevent. Google Play has over 90% market share on Android and has constrained OEMs from shipping devices with other stores installed and used other methods to prevent any alternatives from establishing a network effect. And now that regulators are getting after them about doing those things, they've sprung this "verified developers" trap to keep it going. This has the simplest evidence of anything. If other stores are a viable alternative, why do they have ~0% market share?
- jeroenhd 1y ago
  > has constrained OEMs from shipping devices with other stores installed Every Samsung phone comes with the Samsung Store. My Xiaomi phone came with a Xiaomi store. I don't know about any vendors that even wanted to ship app stores outside of their own, but I don't recall Google preventing them from doing that. > If alternative stores are a viable alternative, why do they have ~0% market share? Because people like Google Play? All I ever read about the app store alternatives that do exist is that people wished they could get rid of them. Personally, I find Google Play to be the best app store around, even compared to iOS' app store, in terms of search functionality and responsiveness. And that's a low bar to clear, given the absolute garbage Google will throw at you with some searches. With Amazon closing its app store, the only independent app store that has the ability to charge people money has disappeared. That doesn't mean Steam or Epic or Microsoft couldn't set up their own stores if they wanted to. Hell, even with the "verified developer" system, alternative app stores are still possible.
  - AnthonyMouse 1y ago
    > Every Samsung phone comes with the Samsung Store. My Xiaomi phone came with a Xiaomi store. Google got caught withholding search revenue from vendors who installed third party stores and punishing them in various other ways. The phone vendor stores are all useless specifically because they're from the phone vendors, which means they'll be terrible because hardware vendors are notoriously bad at software, and on top of that they'll only be installed for people with that brand of phone, which again destroys the network effect. > All I ever read about the app store alternatives that do exist is that people wished they could get rid of them. Those are the phone vendor stores. Nobody wants those. Actual competitors would be the likes of Amazon or Epic or F-Droid, but Google's shenanigans have meant they all have negligible market share to the extent that Amazon even gave up. > Because people like Google Play? That wouldn't explain it. If they like Google Play and ten other things then they would each have ~10% market share. If they only like Google Play, that implies something fishy is going on, because you'd otherwise expect there to be a thousand bad ones and at least a dozen good ones since it's not that hard to set up an app store. Unless it is that hard, and then why is that?
    - 1y ago